Let the Females go to run again!

[shd84]

Well had a good saturday.. Started out with a phone call from a good friend of mine, he had a buddy just see a lion and was headin out to get it started! So it took all of about 20 minutes to get my gear and dogs loaded was to my buddy within 30 min of call! he had it goin and i got to turn the dogs into him to give them a piece of the action! Dogs had her caught in no time a beautifull Arizona Female, even looked to be pregnant which would be great our area has taken a pounding the last 5 to 10 years and we have seen the affect of killing our females for the most part we have gotten together as houndsmen to let the females run but of course there are a few nuckle heads that continue to kill the females but what can ya do at least i know myself and for the most part the other doggers are doin whats right and lettin the FEMALES GO! Like to tell Jesse and Melvin thanks for callin makes it lots of fun when we all stick together lol Jesse old Porter Dog has still got it what a dog!!

[Rookie]

I'm with you we treed afemale today and it also will live to have a litter of kittens. there are no excuses for killing females

[snakerivercatman]

Congrats on letting the Hens go guys!! I feel the exact same way. Everyone that kills a female that's not depradation or killing your hounds should be hung by their short and curlies! Why do people whack a female when they know they're just shooting themselves in the foot? I don't get it, there's no trophy quality there (at least not to me). Guys just sometimes feel that they have to kill every one they tree just to prove they caught one......haven't they ever heard of the new thing called a camera? Great pics, and thanks for sharing.

[Bplott]

AWESOME U GUYS!! Wish we could teach some ethics to some they nuckle heads here in UTAH they have about distroyed our lion hunting by killing females and kittens!! Spread the word!! IF IT SQUATS TO PEE LET IT BE!!!

[shd84]

Yea it does hurt the lion hunting killing the females and kittens unforturnately myself and all the other doggers had to learn the hard way thank God we have gotten it together here latley most guys think they gotta kill em for their dogs and its just not true. I owe a lot to Mike Harris for poundin this in my head and the late Greg Anderson. Not sayin i havent killed females in the past just sayin I have learned my lesson and wish others would learn from my mistakes, especially now that our lion numbers are comin up again thanks for your guys input.... Hunter

[Mike Leonard]

Good job hunters save your lion hunting by saving females! According to every leading cougar authority in the US allmost no breeding age females 2 years or older go barren if they are healthy. That means you kill a female she is either pregnant, or still caring for sub adults so you kill her you are killing not just one lion but more usually 2-3 kittens and placing that many subs in peril and then disorganizing a matriliniel society.

I have had supposidely knowledgeable lion hunters tell me, yeah we killed that female but hell she didn't have no milk so she didn't have no kittens anyway. LOL! Lion kittens only suckle for about 8 weeks but stay with their mothers for 64-70 weeks.

[SHADOWHUNTER]

I AGREE, LETS SAVE THE FEMALES. I PERSONALLY BELEIVE NMDGF NEEDS TO MAKE CHANGES AS TO WHEN FEMALES CAN BE HARVESTED. THIS GOES FOR THE BEAR AS WELL. AN IDEA , MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE A PURSUIT SEASONS FOR FEMALES DURING CERTAIN PARTS OF THE SEASON TO HARVEST THESE GALS. THIS WOULD EXPAND OUR POPULATIONS AND CREATE MORE HUNTING OPPORTUNITIES. AND IF SO HAVE A STIFF PENALTY FOR HARVESTING A FEMALE OUT OF A PROPOSED SEASON? IT NOT HARD TO IDENTIFY THE GENDER OF AN ANIMAL. IVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS NOW

[Mike Leonard]

shadowhunter,

(MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE A PURSUIT SEASONS FOR FEMALES DURING CERTAIN PARTS OF THE SEASON TO HARVEST THESE GALS. THIS WOULD EXPAND OUR POPULATIONS AND CREATE MORE HUNTING )

Why would you want to harvest females anyway? Maybe I am not understanding this statement correctly.

Females are not territorial but they have natal home ranges that overlap and most commonly they are matralinel which means they are related and this keeps order within a tom's territory if he is the preferred breeder and is not displaced. Male subs generally move well away from home ranges to try to established a territory so the incoming toms are most commonly not related closely. Should the dominant tom be displaced or killed in an established area and a foriegener moves in he will try to kill the kittens as quickly as he can to bring the females back into estrus so his line is passed on. Females that resist too violently are also killed. Infinticide is the largest fatal factor in the cougar world.

NMGF knew that the female sub-limits they set up for the 2010 season were too low for them to achieve their goal. ( eliminating as many cougars from the state as possible). So they created the new harvest goals and sub quotas that will kick in next harvest season and be locked in for four years which they hope will quadruple the female harvest and in turn dramitically reduce the state's population of cougars for some years to come.

[Benny G]

Having a female "season" wouldn't avoid killing kittens that are still relying on the female either. Lions have kittens in every month of the year.

[Azlongears]

Right on!

We should all be on the same page on this issue.

What breeding is that bob-tailed dog in the first picture?

AZ

[shd84]

it is Greg Anderson bred His dad is a dog named jug who is A Bloody Bill Curly cross owned by Trevor Nelson and mother is a Dirty Deeds, Dirty Slew (Loansome) cross her name is Shutta I am in the process of making this cross again that dog is just under a year in that pic was makin bear races at 9 months old trailing and treeing and fightin bears at 10 months should be one hell of a dog after this winter....... Had to make the cross again amazing results, if anyone interested in a puppy let me know im plannin on keeping 2-3 of em for myself

[sourdough]

Unfortunately for the lion and those of us that enjoy the sport of lion hunting, Lions will always be seen as a menace and one of the main causes of the decline of deer through out the west. For those that hunt deer, the lion has no worth and should be eradicated! Although I agree that lions can a do impact deer herds they are a small part of a bigger problem and removal is a short term fix. Deer number will never again reach historic levels without addressing the big picture.

Over the last 120 years or so our land management practices have change drastically, couple that with an increased human population. We have forever changed the landscape and the way things normally take place in the environment. Habitat decline has had the biggest impact on deer herds and I am not talking about the lack of acres these animals have left to use but, the amount of quality feed they need to encourage herd growth and survivability.

Fire suppression efforts over most of the 20th century as well as decreased timber harvest on our public lands have crippled the ability of our deer to rebound. Despite our wildlife agencies efforts to increase deer numbers by removing more lions the range land these deer are using can only support so many, it's called caring capacity and one of the most basic terms used in wildlife management.

Money is the main thing driving management decisions. It's a sad reality. Whether it is the billion dollar fire suppression business the forest services is in or the millions of dollars in revenue these state wildlife agencies are getting from sportman each year.

Letting females and subs go is a great practice and should be encouraged by all lion hunters but, until deer numbers reach a place the sportsman want they will be hitting the ground at an ever increasing rate.

sourdough

[Rookie]

Sourdough you make some great point's. But as houndsmen we still can chose to leave all females in the tree. Make no different's what the quota's are. In Montana you pay a $50.00 trophy fee once you kill a cat. Females are not trophy's and lot's of our hounds men talk there buddy's into getting a cat tag so they can go kill these females cause they don't what a trophy female they want to kill cat's to boost they ego's. There has been 42 females killed in Montana to date. Some of these cat's have come from what our FWP sold as trophy unit's were your tag is good till April 14 so you would have plenty of time to get a good tom. It all boiles down to morales and what sort of person you really are when one ones looking

[az_hunter]

Congrats on the lion!!! I have been looking for one a big kitty cat to finish my first season with a triple header. 2 Bear and 2 bobcat under my belt do far congrats again!!

[SHADOWHUNTER]

MIKE,
THE STATEMENT I INTENDED AND FAILED TO COMPLETE IS THAT "THE HARVEST SEASON OR PURSUIT SEASON", SHOULD BE LIMITED TO A "NO KILL" OF FEMALES, BUT STILL BEING ALLOWED TO PURSUE THE GALS. THEREFORE NOT ALLOWING THE QUOTAS TO FILL AND CLOSE UP EARLY, SAY FOR EXAMPLE FEMALES CAN ONLY BE HARVESTED STARTING WITH ONE WEEK IN DECEMBER, JANUARY, FEBRUARY, MARCH UNTIL THE QUOTA IS MET. NOW THIS IS MY OPINION, IM NOT A BIOLOGIST, JUST PUTTING IN A LITTLE COMMON SENSE. I NEVER IMPLIED TO WANT TO KILL FEMALES, BUT THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS OUT THERE THAT DONT CARE. I HOPE THIS CLARIFIES MY INCOMPLETE STATEMENT