Garmin Use in California

[blondbeard]

livetohunt sent a pm

[RIFLEMAN]

Hi Guys,

I would caution you against assuming or asserting that DFG hates us. First of all, CADFG is an organization made up of a lot of moving parts and people. There are a lot of wide-ranging opinions between each part and even within each part. As an example, while there are certainly wardens with a jaded perception of hound hunting, there are also plenty of wardens who are supportive of hound hunting. Secondly, when you consider how our regulations compare to those of many other states, us California houndsmen have it pretty good. How many other states allow you to pursue coon, cat, fox, coyote, and hare with dogs night or day year round? How many other states allow you to hunt hogs year round? How many other states allow you to hunt with dogs during deer season (albeit we have the one-dog-per-hunter limitation to contend with)? As an institution, CADFG has demonstrated their support of houndsmen through the regulatory liberties that we enjoy to this day. While there are certainly things that we would like them to improve upon, I think you should cut them some slack and take a moment to be thankful for the regulations that we have.

With respect to the GPS situation, I've been working with CADFG for the last few years on this matter ever since Dodger, one of my favorite dogs of all time, was hit by a car in December of 2007. There is no doubt that this tragedy would have been avoided had I legally been able to provide the same welfare for my hounds that California bird hunters, ranchers, and pet owners already enjoy through the use of GPS.

As an illustration of the fact that they don't hate us, as part of the 2010 regulatory package, CADFG formally proposed this past February to allow GPS dog recovery equipment and treeing switches, and reduce the size of the dog control zones. Note also that Nancy Foley, Chief of Enforcement and boss of all of the wardens, publicly stated during a Commission meeting that hound hunting is the only form of catch and release hunting.

Despite being warmly received by the Commission, these proposals fell victim to the fact that ALL of the bear hunting proposals were tabled at the request of CADFG due to their stated concerns that they were not compliant with the mandates of the California Environmental Quality Act ("CEQA"). CEQA requires that the Department provide the public with the opportunity to submit comments regarding the proposals, and mandates that the Department provide a written response to the comments. They indicated that they would likely be unable to respond to the comments in time.

I will be meeting with the Department in early January to revisit these proposals, and will continue this fight until I see, "Dodger's Law" made official. Rest assured that CHC will continue to lead the charge and keep this topic at the forefront of our legislative efforts, and I hope that we can count on every one of you to help us when the time comes to make your voices heard.

[BEAR HUNTER]

Not to hijack the post but I take exception to Nancy Foley being a lover of houndsmen or sportmen in general. All one has to do is do a google search on her name and you will find out all about her. Here is a perfect example:

SACRAMENTO, Calif.——The California Department of Fish and Game, which jumped in bed with the Humane Society of the United States—the nations largest anti-hunting group—last year, has accepted another $5,000 from HSUS, firmly putting the California Department of Fish and Game in the forefront of the national media campaign for the anti-hunting movement.

Creating a major uproar in the hunting and outdoor community last year when they accepted the first check for $5,000 from HSUS—intended to provide food and veterinary care for DFG warden K9 dogs—this second donation is a virtual nose-thumbing to the hunting community.

The reaction from the hunting community last year was such that all the supporting groups of California Outdoor Heritage Alliance (COHA) offered to fully fund the DFG warden K-9 costs, to the tune of over $20,000, if they would return the money to the anti-hunting group—but that offer was declined by Nancy Foley, DFG's Chief of Enforcement.

And, rather than come to the pro-hunting groups in California for help this year, Foley again accepted a $5,000 contribution from HSUS this year, pledging cooperation in the future.

The Humane Society of the United States has publicized their gift nationwide, and now their donation to California's DFG is the subject of the cover feature of HSUS' magazine All Animals, an anti-hunting, animal-rights magazines.

“California’s wildlife and habitat are under severe pressure,” said Nancy Foley, DFG’s chief of law enforcement. “We are again very grateful to The Humane Society of the United States for their support of the wardens’ efforts to combat the increase in poaching. We look forward to continued collaboration on this issue.”

[livetohunt]

I think its a very fine line we walk as houndsmen here in California. Yes we do have more rights here then others in our neighboring states but at the same time we all know just how fast we can lose them. The state of California has more non hunting public, more anti hunting groups, and more tree hugging bunny lovers then any other state out there. We must never stop fighting and pushing for our rights in this state or they will take them. With the exception of a some in DFG I dont belive for one minute that fish and game is on our side in this fight or any fight. Fish and Game and the anti hunting groups know all to well that once we lose a hunting right how hard it is to get back and they are and will continue to pick away at them every day you can count on that.

[Huntintony]

Well said Chris. I couldn't agree more. Rifleman, thanks for all you do for us in calif. I know your trying hard but you are fighting against a tough bunch! What's up with the rumor that we might get to lion hunt again here? Anybody know anything on this one?

[BEAR HUNTER]

I agree Rifleman thank you for all you are doing and have done. Very few of us myself included actually take the time to fight for our rights. Its easy to sit here on the computer and complain, much harder to do what you are doing. I think you are mistaken in your trust of CDFG but at least you are doing something about it. Thanks and Merry Christmas.

[twispcougarhunter]

In Washington state we have a few totally deaf hound hunters and the gps is the absolute only way they can track their dogs. They have tried the beeper type but can't hear and the needle reading is not reliable but the gps is invaluable. I think the group that represents handicapped folks might be able to get involved with this one. If you don't allowe the handicapped to at least play on a level field or limit their abilities to participate in a sport then you are violating laws.

[livetohunt]

Hey twispcougarhunter that is a very good point. It would be nice if we could make them pass it due to the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. I know that due to the ADA disabled hunters can shoot from there vehicles, and can use crossbows during archery season. Would sure be nice if it was a start maybe if they had to let it in because of ADA then the antis will not sue and make such trouble about it.

[Everlast]

Give it time.............we'll get the tree switches back and will be allowed to use the garmins. The DFG's published langauge for overturning the current restrictions on garmins and tree switches is strong and from what I have read, there is really no reason why we won't get these privliges at some point in the coming year. I posted a link to the DFG website several months back which showed the DFG support for legalizing the switches and garmins.

[outlaw13]

Everlast can you post that link again i can't find it.

[RIFLEMAN]

Bearhunter,

Not to hijack the post but I take exception to Nancy Foley being a lover of houndsmen or sportmen in general.

I didn't say that Nancy Foley is a lover of houndsmen or sportsmen, merely that her public statement that houndhunting is the only method of catch and release hunting is significant.

But, while we are on the subject, while I do believe that Nancy Foley appreciates hound hunting in and of itself, I cannot say with certainty how she feels about those who participate in hound hunting; I would suspect that her experiences with the criminal element is likely to have jaded her opinion of most or all of us. However, being both an optimist and one who has seen remarkable progress in our relationship with the Department over the last few years, I do see the potential for the hound hunting community to extends its improved reputation with the Department to the wardens as well.

I do not trust the CADFG any more than I trust the DMV; CADFG is a government agency, and no less immune to the fallibilities and flaws that any agency is fraught with...inefficiency, incompetence, and undue political influence in their decision-making process being among them. In the end, I do not think it is at all constructive to create and maintain an "us vs. them" atttitude; like it or not, we must work with CADFG for our own benefit, and I have just the right combination of stubbornness and optimism to be dangerous.

[RIFLEMAN]

Tony,

What's up with the rumor that we might get to lion hunt again here? Anybody know anything on this one?

No, I haven't heard any rumors to this effect. I'd be interested in getting more insight into what you've heard. Please PM me with the details when you have a moment.

From a legal perspective, there are a few ways to open up the possibility for lion hunting in California:
1. Overturn Proposition 117 with a 2/3 vote of the California Legislature.
2. Overturn Proposition 117 with another proposition.
3. Overrule Proposition 117 with a judicial challenge.

Note that none of these would result in the immediate implementation of a lion season. Rather, they would simply return the authority to manage lions back to CADFG.

[RIFLEMAN]

For those of you interested in reviewing the Department's language, I suggest reviewing the Use of Dogs and Bear hunting sections within the following link:

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/new/2 ... asp#mammal


Here's the memo from the Department to the Commission asking that they take the No Change option:
http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/new/2 ... o42010.pdf

[Huntintony]

Rifleman, Does the Commission usually go with the recommendation from the Dept? I would think they do. That was a very interesting read, how they would want us to call in our collars and keep our data for 24hrs. Dont really know how to respond to that...

[Everlast]

Outlaw13,

Heres the direct link to the proposed tree switch/GPS changes;

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/new/2010/265isor.pdf