cat and bear wrote:Southern Dix, I have no doubt your dogs, would trail bear here, with style, and have very capable noses to do just that. Its what they do with the bear once they catch it, and have grit to get it up a tree, that is the challenge. I will be doing a puppy trade with one of the guys you mentioned, and as he said, its easy to breed cat dogs, your trying to breed a combination dog, of cats and bear, thats a tougher challenge.
I would love to see how this pans out for you. Im interested in seeing how they do with the grit as well. I know my pups love to tackle a bob or a coon on the ground...... but they have never seen a bear. I hope it works out for you.
I'll let every guy judge for himself,but every dog I've had along with the names mentioned,have littermates or gave/sold them to bearhunters/combo hunters and have had excellent results[baying bad bear in tight brush,in rough/steep terrain]I feel these litters produce both,and a guy has to pick the right disposition to suit the desired game in which he's after.I've made the WRONG selection before and had a hell of a time bear breaking some of these dogs,while the other guy selected one that was more cat minded diposition. When I trained and sold cowhorses and cowdogs for a big share of my income,I found the same thing in a litter of Bordercollies/Kelpies that were bred especially for handling rough/wild cattle in thick cover---there were indeed some pups in those litters that made better sheep dogs[calmer,easy to put a handle on,wider swinging,tighter eyed,less bite etc.].Some of my bigtime prospect cutters made better reiners and reined cowhorses,even though the millions that were spent to develop that specific line of cutters. Bottom line is that was still the best place to start with.There are many top hunters out there now,that are breeding and raising some top notch prospects for hounds,some more specific to terrain and conditions,some a little more versital.From what I've experienced,some of the top known desert line of dogs don't fair well in uor country,due to the stickyness on track and lack of being able to get around in the brush,while others ther say taht the northwest dogs don't have enough nose.I personally myself have not found this to be true-----But I'm still looking and trying dogs from other regions,because I hope to stay open minded.I bought a pup last year from Randy Pixler[cortez,colorado]that him and Van Johnson bred,she looks to have the the nose,and looks like she's gonna move the track with my running dogs. Tim
Tim I respect your opinion, may try a N.W. Dog,but if you have any more of them trashy bear dogs, just give me a call, I probably could find room for them
I've got no lock down suggestions as to where to find a cold nosed walker, or any dog for that matter. But I SURE wish I had one. I'd say a couple but I don't want to sound greedy.
I get a kick out threads like this. We treat dogs like machine pressed products that get worked down the line and turned out perfect in mass numbers. Well I've been looking for the factory for a long time but haven't seemed to find it. I have seen a few dogs here/there and a bunch of other decent ones that fill in the gap.
In reality only a handfull of the tracks we try are of the real tough variety. The test is if we can get it going with what's in our box at the time. Some times we find we can't. The ONLY way we'd know if something else could is if we put them down on the SAME track. Everything else is just speculation. And MOST of speculation hinges on Hype. Hype sells dogs, reality doesn't.
I've been told by a few pretty good houndsmen, and hunters, the last of the cold nose Registered walkers, are finley river, and nice balanced hounds besides. I cant really say from experience, but i have the upmost respect of both guys, and their opinions.
I have seen alot of cold nosed walkers of all strain but the main factor was they couldnt move a track fast enough to scatter thier own poop. So what I am saying is if they have the cold nose and not the ability to drift or move the track a cold nosed dog is worthless in my opinion so cold nosed alone means nothing in my eyes like (cat and bear) stated they need to be well rounded also. Andy
No secret I feel this way but you have to get back to finley river. I agree with who's said this already. Back in the day they were not the eye candy walker fanciers have come to love today. Some were sloppy built and coarse haired. Long, thick oily coat. Houndy type of dog. Barrel chested. Some were heavy built all over but surprisely could still move out and perform well. Most level headed and sensible walker dogs I've been around. They were balanced in performance. Build and looks were another story. In an attempt to breed the perfect comp. walker dog and show champion this great line has been diluted and in most cases not used or carried on in major walker lines of today. Cold nosed track minded dogs don't win the hunts nor do ugly sloppy built dogs win on the bench. Yadkin river blood is seeing a resurgence. In my opinion this is an admission of present day breeders that we lost something. Yadkin river dogs were usually just a better looking finley river dog at one time if my bloodline memory is correct.
Never let school stand in the way of my education.
Bought 2 females from Lonnie Mears 2 years ago.Strike a dirty cold track off the rig[bobcat]and move it good,and locate and tree at the end of the race.Went back to Chief 62 times in 7 generations.Ankle express nailed it. Tim
Talked to Lonnie a couple of years ago and he told me, the Finley River dogs just don't have the nose they had in years past. The walkers I am running are getting it done in the dirt and can pound out a old track. It took some culling and finding the right combo but I like what I have. I can say I have never had any luck with Finley River dogs, I am sure there are some out there, I have just not seen them.
LIGHTNING RIDGE KENNELS
Walker breeding at it's best
Used to Catch Big Game
Our choice is as simple as Black and White
Devin Staker
970-756-5998 http://www.forum.workingdogsworldwide.com/
Ankle Express wrote:No secret I feel this way but you have to get back to finley river. I agree with who's said this already. Back in the day they were not the eye candy walker fanciers have come to love today. Some were sloppy built and coarse haired. Long, thick oily coat. Houndy type of dog. Barrel chested. Some were heavy built all over but surprisely could still move out and perform well. Most level headed and sensible walker dogs I've been around. They were balanced in performance. Build and looks were another story. In an attempt to breed the perfect comp. walker dog and show champion this great line has been diluted and in most cases not used or carried on in major walker lines of today. Cold nosed track minded dogs don't win the hunts nor do ugly sloppy built dogs win on the bench. Yadkin river blood is seeing a resurgence. In my opinion this is an admission of present day breeders that we lost something. Yadkin river dogs were usually just a better looking finley river dog at one time if my bloodline memory is correct.
Thanks for the very fair evaluation and knowledge of the dogs Ron
Tim Pittman wrote:we'll post some pics for ya Devin.ha ha!!!
Like I said, I am sure they are out there. I have just never had one that was worth the bullet to shoot it with.
LIGHTNING RIDGE KENNELS
Walker breeding at it's best
Used to Catch Big Game
Our choice is as simple as Black and White
Devin Staker
970-756-5998 http://www.forum.workingdogsworldwide.com/
Devin, just wondered how many Finley River dogs did you hunt and how were they bred to be considered Finley River, not knockin you but who or how is anyone keeping a certain strain going, I am not an expert at breeding just not sure if there are that many breeders out there to keep a strain going. It was well known that John Monroe was a top breeder and the first Finley River dog I owned back in the 70's (FR Joe, FR Kate) was not what I would consider a big game hound w/cold nose, real slow but sure, but I did see some that made top big game hounds w/cold noses, I think there are cold nosed hounds of most all breeds if someone knows how to get it and keep it, but as you know takes more than nose, there is alot goes into breeding hounds, sounds like you know about hounds, if you don't mind what are you breeding and raising? hope you boys don't mind me chimin in I'm new to this, maybe I can learn something, like Tim's opinion too keep it up. thanks.
