female killers

[walkin w/ some blue]

Well said HoundDawg!! And Ryan missed your post anytime you want to talk give me a call. 881 1696

[deerchaser101]

HE WHO IS WITH OUT SIN LET HIM CAST THE FIRST STONE. BUT THEN THERE BE NO POST.

[AZDOGMAN]

Timothy, kudos to you for standing up for what you believe. pretty sad this guy after only one year has this figured out when some havent after 20 years. I will admit early on when i got into hounds we killed anything that climbed but i got to the point where we did not kill any females. It was hard at first but once you get into the swing of things you feel better walking away from the tree with her still in it than you did with her on your back. I wish i had people telling me this stuff and pounding it into my head when i started but didnt. The guiding excuse is B.S. There will always be the new guys that dont know better or the outfitters that dont give a shit that will kill plenty of females to keep the population in check.
The other day we had a tom track and a little female that hangs out in this one area all the time had crossed to. Well one of the local killem all guys came and killed her. It was a sad day and we could hear his dogs treed on the lion. When we passed him sitting on the track i asked if he was gonna kill her cause he knew she was a good pup trainer and he said he thinks she is just a transient female passing through. B.S. Pretty funny cuz when one of these big bad guides kills a female its always a "big female".
I am sure some places are different than others but overall i think Timothy and some of you other guys are spot on.

[klamathcathunter]

I better get more dogs cuz them deer i run keep getting away. so i figure the cats are safe because i cant catch a female or a tom lol

[jason]

Tim good luck with your quest I agree with what you're trying to do,
If people don't want to make your list then don't shoot a female.
But for the people asking the question, I've been in hounds for a dozen years or so and I've never taken a female or allowed a female to be taken over my dogs. I'd be a hypocrite to ever allow one to be taken now.

[sourdough]

End a lion season, on a female quota! Biology 101: Tom's are the biggest factor controlling the number of kitten's recruited with Felis concolar... in normal life, while being a lion, cougar or any other name you might want to call them. So if you want to really knock a population of any feline predator down, start killing females. What you didn't take down the tom's will. Not only that, Females use every bit of their kills as tom's may kill and feed one time and then move on. Tom's are big time killer's, if things are right he will make multiple kills. So killing females may sound good using "deer" management practices. It doesn't not work with predators that are 100% meat eater. If deer number plummet do to habitat or winter kill. Lion numbers will follow and yes livestock kills will go up as well as depredation permit's, I guess that, this is the time to use sport hunting to take care of it? The average person does not have the time nor the resources to work on it because of their day job. Should the state give these type of calls to an outfitter? What would these outfitter do if they had to work coyote, fox, bobcat, skunk, weasel, etc... calls. I will tell you they would have something else to do. Pulling the trigger on a female is based on one thing and that's a pay check! Because these "dudes" that book a hunt can't tell a lion track from a elk track unless you show them.

sourdough

[final step]

WOW!!!!
Where did all the female killers go? Come on guys and gals we need some more excuses for killing females.

[black eye]

Timothy,
Great post call em all out!!!!!
I hope to meet you @ the uha banquet tomorrow I'd shake your hand.

Dawg is right we are pissin in our own bed, and the sfw loves to watch us destroy lions for them!!!!!

I dont buy any excuse ACCEPT responsability for YOUR poor decisions in life.

But their will always be clowns in denial its not me.
LOOK IN THE MIRROR UTAH HOUNDSMEN!!!!!!

[johnnyrick1981]

this is an absolutely GREAT topic, and very interesting to read the difference in opinions or attitude between different types of cat hunters.

[tod watterson]

i been reading on this forum for years , never really wanted to post anything but ijust happen yo know a little bit about this dave ferguson guy .hes been coming up to cache valley for about the last four years killing anything that will climb a tree.i only know of one tom that he killed and at least nine females.he came out again this year and killed three females in nov. and earley dec. two years ago i asked him not to keep killing all our trainers and his response was ''i dont descriminate when it comes to killing lions''. there was my buddy ive hunted with for twenty plus years there and he heard it to.dont fall for his''i try to talk them outa killing females'' bs cause thats all it is BS.he tried to boot us off public ground last jan. cause we beat him in where he was hunting,after the ass chewing he got from me i didnt think i'd see him again,but he was back this year.he doesnt care if he kills females because hes not going to come back just to chase them,he wants to kill everything.

[Kenneth]

Just trying to learn a little something from sourdough's post about tom's killing more deer than tabbies. It has always been my understanding that while a tom might kill more deer than a tabby on her own, a tabby who has kittens and is teaching her kittens to hunt will kill far more than a tom. And as described in other posts, if at any one time, it is more likely than not that the tabby has kittens or has been bred and will have kittens soon, then wouldn't it seem that the tabbies are killing at least as often as the toms, if not more.

Ken

[sourdough]

I have never seen a female make multiple kills even with sub-adult with her. She will make a kill, feed and take her young to it. It is their own inherited instinct that make those subs killers and what they are able to do with those talents that allow them to survive. Once she comes into heat after getting them that far in their life is up to them. Some females will go so far to remove there young from danger that they will go to places that don't have a high prey density to have there kittens and make a living off small game until they need more. Whether females or tom, if they are lucky enough to reach breeding age they have a good grasp on how to kill. They need little training.

Here is an example: photo #1 march Buck, no antlers. Second night.



Third night.



Because I am trail cam stupid and the cam was first generation I wasn't able to get these on camera until the forth night.





This buck was never covered and the female had little worry of birds or any other critters.

A lion killers dream. The tracks showed more than one kitten, but I never caught them in the same frame.

This buck in this photo was killed by a tom. One feeding, I caught him two weeks later off a coyote ravaged carcass.





I have many other kill photo's with tom's sitting in trees at the end. I have seen first hand what they do. Followed females around and around and they do kill deer as well as grouse and any other critter that they get the upper hand on. But I have never seen the want and waste left behind that a tom has done.

sourdough

[timothy]

I am sorry I will not be making it to that banquet. I wish I could but my Wife only lets me spend so much $$ on huntimng stuff. I have a application out for limited entry elk and moose which i have a good chance of drawing and I am going to texas to hunt white tail so I am unfortunatly having to spend my off fridays working overtime to make sure I have the money in the bank!

[cat and bear]

Sourdough, thank you for sharing interesting FACTS

[Kevin D]

The time to discuss whether or not to take a female lion is BEFORE the hunt takes place and NOT under the tree!

The argument that it's the client's tag therefore it is their choice whether or not to take a female doesn't carry a lot of weight with me. If you are honest and sincere in wanting to protect females, you tell the hunter up front that you do not allow females to be taken over your dogs.......then back it up. It is not a question of preference, it is a question of principle. Your clients and hunters will respect that.