female killers

[tod watterson]

Bob Baldwin Jr. , Way too much beer at Hawn's

[plottpappaw]

ask yourself this question how can you tell that that 75 pound female that appears young aint 15 and reproducing offspring she can nurse or passes on disease too.

[Yard Dog]

The only thing that cats are dying of out here is lead poisoning...

[Lil Joes BigGame hounds]

plottpappaw, How many lion trees have you been to? Every year and half old lion I have ever saw looked very young, nice sharp teeth, slick hair. They maybe skinny but thats cause they are not very good hunters. And yes I have saw a few close up, but choose not to shoot them anymore cause I can tell the difference in a kitten and a old tom. Not a very good argument.

[B/T]

B/T wrote.Actually the cat in question was shot the day after it killed his dog and was in a tree.
I was questioning where he came up with 5%for permit killed cats, Ive never seen that published/posted on a harvest report before. Maybe you guys are just worried about the outfitters and others taking the cats away from your clients. Maybe TJ will get one next year.Its something like in the tod watterson post where he says if people quit taking out every tom,dick and harry to kill a cat that offers them a bag of dog food. Im not just concerned about the female harvest but the toms as well in certain areas,and the harvesting is quit often done by the same bunches of guys. Its all a big competition to beat the others out there or if we dont shoot it the outfitter will etc attitude.


Im aware of the situation and not once did i say that I agreed with it. What would you have done????? The 5% is a not a fact, its merely a guestimate, being involved in the harvest quota for 5 years now, you get to see who kills toms/female, which oufitters and which locals bring in permit holders. I personally know 3 permit holders from our area and one tom was killed. TJ wont kill a tom. Vanessa might. If its big. In 5 days we treed 7 cats and 1 bobcat, 2 100 lb toms and the rest females. Didnt see them toms on TV did you??? didnt think so. It all falls down to ethics and I have them so dont push my morales or ethics like its any of your business. In 12 years thats the first person Ive takin out to harvest a cat other then my own father and it took him 3 years before he killed a nice mature tom. the topic is females killers not what me or you are doing. If you havent killed a female then whats your deal.....................I havent!!!! IM trying to stop the slob hunters around here from doing it. Plain and simple, not a pissing match! I agree with you on the tom situation, i can name off ppl that kill imature toms every year but i wont. The only way to overcome this is to have a proper management system brought in. not just a 40 female quota in all region 4. it aint working, we will see that in a couple more years. Outfitters and permit holders have the right to bring ppl in to hunt, its what they do with them that matters.

Interesting I didnt realize Irene had help with the harvest quota also didnt realize they made it public knowledge on who shot cats or held permits, will have to look into that.
Never seen any of TJs stuff on tv not really a fan of his or what he does.
Not trying to start anything but 1 cat in 12 years,were you not involved in one roughly a week before TJ came didnt you take an uncle out for one ,and possible guide a client to one for an outfitter, then there is the one with the scared up nose, that cat gave some good runs before your group took it, I could go on but not worth it. My point is like I said before its not only a problem with female cats being taking its all cats and certain resident groups seem to take the majority.
I had a look at the harvest numbers and again it was the residents that harvested more females then the outfitters so maybe the outfitters arent your problem.
Personally would like to see a male and female quota or a combined quota but with realistic numbers for as with our current female quota it is to high.I do not think outfitters should have there own quota for I feel it would cause more to be shot then they do now. Do not want to see it like alberta for I think when there quota is meet the season is shut down there is no pursue season. I liked it the couple years our quota was meet for you could go out and never see anybody, once they couldnt shoot a cat most stayed home.
Bottom line every one does it for a different reason and no laws/rules will make everyone happy and they problems within can be caused by all user groups.
Have fun at the trials
Hounddawgs post has some good stuff in it.

[Bplott]

Its realy easy to tell a 70lb kitten from an adult lion, usually by the time they are an adult the milk has dried up on there face......these lil cats that are being killed have to have the milk wiped off there face before they take pictures!!

[plottpappaw]

i'll be honest never been to one but my point was genetics and taking out the inferior animals not specifying lions directly. some must die so others can grow. like pruning bushes so new growth can come in. i'm not saying kill them all but a certain amount should be killed to insure population growth.

[timothy]

Plotpawpaw that would make sense if the population had been managed properly. However the population is in such disarray that they dont even make it to that age. Id be happy to run a inferior lion right now, it is better than what we got which is almost no lions.

[plottpappaw]

so what i've gathered is there is a legitimate case of trigger happy hunters putting holes in anything that moves. why not implament sanctuaries. we put sanctuaries in to effect around 71 and our bear population has become overwhelming. you can't even have a dog loose on that sanctuary. the man on here that does the tracking collars on lions could possibly give some real good advice on maintaining the population. put a weight limit on the lions and implament sex tags instead of a tag for either sex. cut your season in half for 5 years. get in contact with the bear biologist in north carolina and check out how they went from seeing two bears in a tree a year was having a great season to groups killing 20+ bears a year.

[HoundDawg]

Two cats and a lot of mule miles and diesel. I think fishing is sounding better, no ridges, canyons or mountains for that matter. Worst thing would be waves but I can stay in camp and drink beer on those days. Mulehound.

Mulehound, what the hell are you talking about? Mules, ridges, canyons, mountains...

C'mon man, get with the program! The REAL lion hunters over the mountain from you are just riding around in the truck, listening to the Bee Gees on the radio, drinking coffee and rigging B&C toms by the dozens.

Here you are out riding ridges and canyons on your mule? The real legends just drive around with a couple of dogs on the rig and PILE the lions up, right over the hill from you. Then head down to the car wash, spray a bit of mud off the tires and it's over to the Cafe to discuss hounding greatness for the rest of the day.

I don't know what the hell you're doing, riding a mule around on ridges...? No wonder you are struggling. I heard even Warner Glen sold all his mules and bought a big full size F250 with a rig box that will hold 10 dogs on top... and he is just riding the roads down there racking and stacking off the rig. Get with the program dude!! Mules and ridges... that's Lion Hunting 101. Riggin 'em is Grad School stuff! Step to the next level and watch the game climb in droves dude!!

[Plotts]

Sorry for that post BPlott; I should have learned by now not to post when I'm drinking!

LOL

[black eye]

MULEHOUND,
Are you or anybody gonna show up to the UDWR mule deer open house in castle dale, utah on tuseday the 5th?

Sure would be nice to have ONE senseable houndsmen to a few of these open house meetings. Even if you dont rig 50 dogs j/k.

Maybe ask "15 years no results now what"?

or "were @ max carying capacity on deer now ,so why continue the slaughter"?

http://www.utahwildlife.net/forum/viewt ... =8&t=33429

[timothy]

so what i've gathered is there is a legitimate case of trigger happy hunters putting holes in anything that moves. why not implament sanctuaries. we put sanctuaries in to effect around 71 and our bear population has become overwhelming. you can't even have a dog loose on that sanctuary. the man on here that does the tracking collars on lions could possibly give some real good advice on maintaining the population. put a weight limit on the lions and implament sex tags instead of a tag for either sex. cut your season in half for 5 years. get in contact with the bear biologist in north carolina and check out how they went from seeing two bears in a tree a year was having a great season to groups killing 20+ bears a year.

If you had read the entire thread by now you would understand that the DOW does not care if all the lions are killed. Those would be some good things to try except That would mean more of those rotten lions killing deer, and the SFW wont let that happen. They will show up at the RAC meeting drop a 1/4 million dollars arrogantly say this is what we want and the division will drop to there knees and gobble it up!

[rebel2]

Whats your deal deal B/T???? Did you have to churn on this subject for a week to come back on and bash me some more????? Seems to me you like bashing everyone even kasner who doesnt say boo and keeps to himself. I killed my tom a day before TJ got here, been after him for 3 years now. BIG CAT. not a young tom, my dad took my uncle out with his hounds I merely accompanied them, yet again big mature tom. Scar face, any houndsmen would love to have the privledge with scar face that cat missed book by 2/16 if im correct, I could ask the guy that shot it again.And no the group of guys i hunt with aint the same guys that killed scar face. used to but i dont need that B.S anymore so I fled that group. Once again the topic is female killers not tom killers. So way are you branding ppl for killing mature toms. You obviously you know who I am. one day I will see who you are. As for the numbers if you were ever at a hound club meeting at the end of the year we go through all the kills and problem areas. You know which outfitters have hounds and which ones kill what, as its the smae groups of guys killing imature tom and and females avery year. I dont know who holds the permit only the goverment does, my statement was I know 3 guys that do and 1 tom was killed. yes you are right that locals killed more females. Id like to know how many females get killed in elk season with tag holders. We are trying to get a tom quota but there is no pull with the same 16 guys at the meetings.Maybe you should come and voice you opinion like you do on here, might get us the season we ALL want.

[Bplott]

Plotts,
You are absolutely correct that was a dumb post....I was just trying to see at what level all these dummies that think its ok to kill 70lbs lions weather there males or females can be reached at obviously they have no ethics for the sport.... from what I have heard utahs average age of harvest is going to land somewhere between 1.8 and 2.2 yrs of age this year.....I'm not the smarts guy out there BUT even I can do the math to see that is a sign of unethical hunting and no regaurd for the sport.....