how many dogs do u need to effectively run bobcats?

[dwalton]

John you are asking me to give up a lot that I have learned over the years. You need to come hunt with just leave your dogs at home, maybe the old male you have,I would like to see what he has in him. What works for me may not work for others. Number one pick the right pup out of litter. Training starts at 2 weeks old every time a pup comes to me he required to sit then he gets his ears rubbed. Wife[I have been married twice, not now] kids and friends that handle the pups go by my rules or they don't handle. About 4weeks the pups hit the stage that they know more than me. The shock goes on when they come out of the kennels. They are taught to come to the buzz on the collar, hopefully without being shocked. They are taken on a lot of walks, taught the word no and to come at all cost. At 5 to 8 months they are walked with older dog on a cat hunt. Almost all of my dogs wear shock collars no matter how broke they are. What ever broke means. I try to never ask a command that I enforce with the buzz. I shock a dog very little even to break them they know to quit what they are doing and come when that buzz goes off. Yes even off of a jump cat race. I only tie a pup that wonders at the tree until she is broke from this unless I choose to kill a cat. Them all dogs are tied and not allowed to chew on a cat. When I leave a tree that the cat has not been killed I walk off and call the dogs sometimes I may have to use the buzz.I hunt all dogs lose on a walk hunt at all times, they all have the chance to do good or not so good.If you have dogs that don't honor, you have some that bark off track and are not contributing. The one that's not going to the other one is usually the one you want to keep. Again if your dogs are not going to another dog and the one that is not honoring is a good dog the other need not be there. Barking off track is what usually cause this. One of the few things that I will shock a dog for is off track barking. When running a cat and a dog is barking off track it get nailed or when a jump cat hits a road and goes down, you have a run away they get shocked. You will not break them from running cats. They need to be broke from bad habits. The problem so many people have bred for noise, the most barking is the dog that is doing it.. not true. The quite dogs are the ones doing most of the work, when they open everybody goes to them. They should only open when they have the track and are moving it. I love to listen to a hound cold trailing a cat, I hate to hear a dog standing on it's head. Most people don't know the difference. With the GPS collars and hours of hiking behind your dogs you can see things that totally go against what you have been told and believe. If you want cat dogs hunt them in adverse conditions and get behind them to see whats really going on. Not setting in your pick up making up a story as to what happen. You are basing it on a lippy dog that is probably hurting you more than helping. Aggression comes with stupidity, both in dogs and the people that breed for it. Get rid of them there is no place for it in a cat dog. Look for smart, trainable pups out of such dogs for cat dogs. You may have read things here that you may disagree with, fine it is just what works for me. Dewey

[coastrangecathunting]

that is the best post i have read on here dewey. guess i better get your pup sittin.

jc

[Warner5]

Thankyou Dewey, I realize I asked alot of you. I competely agree about a silent dog, I have often said, a true cat dog is doing it's best work when its silent. alot of people will argue with that statement, but really I think they misunderstood what was ment by it. The shocking collar is a tool I have not got a very good grasp on yet. I very rarely run collars on any of my dogs, it seems I do more damage than good at times maybe some day I will be mature enough. I do not own a gps either. although one will be on the way soon. As you probably know I am from the Loyd Basey school of cat hunting, I was alway's told to many dogs get in the way. In loyd's and Brad's defence they alway's had young fella's around trying to learn hound dogging so looking back that was sound advice for a new hunter. I remember when they would go out together & bring their two packs together and make one they would clean up. J.C. and I did the same thing more than 15 yrs ago we took our 3 best dog's(I only had 3) & put them together, after a few race's they learned to honor each other then those 6 dogs really got good at putting cats up togtether. a cat might get away from one of us but if we showed up together odds were the cat was going up. I kinda got off subject but they are experiences to show that I agree with you. probably the toughest thing for me about cat hunting is having the time to train & maintain your pack while keeping the bills paid. And still having time for the wife & kids. Thankyou for your time and advice. I am going to go re-read it about 10 more times now. Talkerdog @ 13 can still put cats up but he can only do it about twice a week. @ 10 he was still very impressive, it kinda makes me wish I would have been on this site sooner. thanks again John.

[DC DOGGIN]

Dewey, you have just answered a many a thoughts i had. Thanks. Your a very knowledgable hunter, i just wish you would share a little more, I can understand why you wouln't tho and i don't blame you a bit. Thanks again hope to hear more informative posts like the one above. DC

[Dads dogboy]

DC Doggin.

I bet you get your wish! Mr. Dewey has lots of knowledge to share...it has all been learned in the "School of Hard Knocks".

With BuddyW's new rules, Good Hunters like Mr. Dewey should be able to speak freely about the things that will help the Neophytes, and allow them to succeed and have success with the Sport that we all love.

Learning to use the E-Collar properly is one of the, if not the most important things a beginning hunter can do! There are some great tips by Mr. Wick over on the Tri-tronics site.

Almost all of the "Great" Cat Hunters that I/We know of start their Pups very early in learning to Mind. Mr. Lewis Jordan in NC started his before weaning in coming to him, in loading in a truck by having an old pickup body on blocks in his puppy pen with a board running from the ground up into it...he would then put their supplemental feed in the truck bed, teaching them to like to get up and in...When the Pups were big enough to jump up, the board was removed.

We have posted earlier in the things that Dad does with the E-collar and a long rope to ensure that the basic command of "Come Here" is firmly embedded in the Pups mind. We do not and have never used a leash on Dads Hounds...they will come when they hear the Truck Horn, a Certain Hollar, a Blowing Horn, or the tone on their E-collar. The tone is the last thing for us...for others it is the devise and way that they have their Hounds responds. As Perk pointed out when here, Blowing the Truck horn and Hollaring a lot would get him lots of cussings and run out of several places he hunts.

As Mr. Dewey does, with ours, every Hound wears an E-collar. This has been discussed in other threads. Things other than trashing may require a TONE or stronger reminder of proper behavior. YOU WILL NOT RUIN A HOUND BY SHOCKING THEM OFF THE GAME OF CHOICE if you have to. If a Highway is coming up, property that you can not hunt, an emergency phone call that requires you to leave the woods...you are not shocking or toning the Hound for running the Game but for not responding to your Command to "COME".

Mr. Dewey's comments about the Silent Hound are very important when your purpose is to Catch the Cat. I am pretty sure that he is not talking about a "Silent" trailer, but Hounds that "Shut UP" on the Check or lose till something finds the Cat. Then the Pack will honor the Speaking Hound. This is why Dad and most Good Hound Hunters in the SE will not run their Packs with other Hounds. The Hounds do not know and respect the strange Hounds, will not immediately Honor. At the Check all should remain silent until something comes up the Game! Also as Dewey says, shocking a Hound for “Hanging up” or “standing on its head” is a MUST! This causes a much longer Check and with a Bobcat this equates into a GONE CAT!

With us and I think with Mr. Dewey the Football Team analogy works well in describing the Pack; A Quarterback - Strike, Trail, Jump Hound; Fullback - Pounding track trailer; Wide Receiver - Swinging, Cunning Runner to whack the Cat when it gets a Jump at a check or as where we hunt whack it when the Cat hits a road; Linemen - the steady Hounds that do all things well but not standouts at any one thing(a Pack Dog to some hunters, with us usually Hounds 18 months to three years of age, who are learning their craft).

In starting Track, Dad puts down the Rig Dogs (usually 4) to find where the Cat has left the Road, more than this will cause confusion much like Mr. Dewey describes with the Snow. Once the Hounds speak off the road the rest of the Hounds (6 to are released to either help in the trailing or to learn how it is done. The exception is a just started Pup who may not be as "BENT" as he will soon get! They are released as soon as the Track has several Hounds speaking freely.

As Perk and VA Cathunter from Virginia have discovered when they came down here for some Hunts, these Bobcats here and the ones in AR have Big, Big country to use. Sunday night we followed a Cat around for 2:30 over 7 miles as the crow flies....the Hounds and the Cat did not travel that way. The Garmin showed this race took up over 11 miles.

Now this Cat did come out and hit the roads numerous times, once for over ¾ mile one time. It took a Pack of Good Hounds to sort out the numerous TRICKS, this Cat pulled in BAD Scenting conditions, and then close the Gap on Him. That Football team/Pack is what allowed us to end the Race with a Cat up a tree or in a Hole.

One Dog/Hound would have been hard put to finish this track with a positive outcome!

Just what we have found, Mr. Dewey has the knowledge that Beginners’ would be hard pressed to find anywhere else!

C. John Clay
Dads dogboy

[dwalton]

C. John Clay: Good post, thank you. I forgot about the 30 foot check I always use it in starting the pups to come. I hear from a lot of houndmens I don't have or want to teach my dogs trick, I just want to hunt them. They are missing the point. You can train a hound far easier and faster for hunting if you get the obedience down. Wick's books are great and Meet Mr. Grizzly by Montigue Stevens is great reading. The man was a 100 years ahead of his time on training dogs, horses and mules. Dewey

[DC DOGGIN]

Dog Boy, thank you, I hope to hear more from you as well as MR. Dewey. Together you hold a mass of cat hunting info, im sure others as well as myself would be very appreciative to hear more stories as well as training tips and advice. Thanks again DC

[Dads dogboy]

Mr. Dewey,

One of the old time Bobcat Hunters from S. TX told Dad as he was starting out with Cat Hounds "Son...teach yore d--n Hounds to mind. They should hunt with you and for you, not you hunt with and FOR them".

Dad says that was the best advise he ever recieved!

CJC

[Buddyw]

Let's test the new Rules out.. Shall we?

Have you guys Ever considered That you need better or different dogs?

Some guys are mopping up and catching just as many with 2 or 3 dogs. If they have 6 it's so that they can use them in Shifts and Hunt More consecutive days.

I've had a Fast Track dog, Probably still do, and Sometimes I think it hurts me.

One Dog I had Hands down More dog for me than I was ready for, I never got to finish her out and She's going to die of old age, and I always say if she was with someone who had the experience She would have made a really Nice dog. She was always in the front and could flat move a Track.. I've Never seen her get imbarassed by any dog. Bear, Cat, Deer, Coyote She had some wheels..

Now the problem is that When she was down with another Fast dog she would compete and over run the tracks..

So I guess that's my question, Do you think that's happening to you guys and your Overrunning tracks by pushing them too hard. So You have more dogs to help Cover up the mistakes? I'll never know for sure, But That was My problem, I Think I was Over running tracks, I guess I could have piled in More dogs and covered it up and Thought that Running the Fastest track dogs was the way to go.

But I've caught more cats by Cutting my numbers than raising them.

Now before you think that I'm just Busting you Balls, or Disrespecting you. I might be, I Might not. But this is only a slam for someone with an ego. I'm not Some Great Cat hunter, So Don't Take my advise. I'm still learning and I've read what you have to say, But It Doesn't make sense to me..

Maybe This means I'll never be considered a Great Cat hunter, But slowly each year I'm getting Less and Less embarrassed about my Dogs when I hunt with others, I've come along way, It Used to be that Everyone would go on to Catch the Cat And I would Go on to Catch my Dogs..

[fox hunter]

buddy i think you are on the right track. everybody goes through their own seperate learning curve to find what work for them or makes them happey. a man or his dogs doesnt have to make anybody but his self happey. different locations require different tactic and are going to dictate the type and number of dogs used along with personal prefferance. a dog can only run a track as fast as his nose will let him some dogs are fast but have no track speed because they cant hold onto the track. my preffered style of cat dog is semi silent until jumped and if they make a lose they do not bark again until they are under the cat running again most people dont like this style of dog but i hunt what i like and what works for me

[Dads dogboy]

Fox Hunter writes:

everybody goes through their own seperate learning curve to find what work for them or makes them happey. a man or his dogs doesnt have to make anybody but his self happey. different locations require different tactic and are going to dictate the type and number of dogs used along with personal prefferance.”


Exactly what we preach all the time…A Hound only has to please the man that feeds it! CJC

BuddyW writes:
“
‘But I've caught more cats by Cutting my numbers than raising them.

So I guess that's my question, Do you think that's happening to you guys and your Overrunning tracks by pushing them too hard. So You have more dogs to help Cover up the mistakes? I'll never know for sure, But That was My problem, I Think I was Over running tracks, I guess I could have piled in More dogs and covered it up and Thought that Running the Fastest track dogs was the way to go.

Buddy

If you have an ineffective Hound, who is not contributing in a positive manner, you will definitely gain by subtraction! However that well oiled machine that is a Cat Hound Pack, that has been trained and hunted together, is a mighty thing to Hear and see in action. When all Hounds go silent on a track at the Check, and you watch on the Garmin as the circle of Hounds expands to where some one finds where the Ole Shorttail has made it’s escape…and it darn sure will at some time in the Race, then Sings out the find and watch all the other Hounds Hark to it….this is what gets the Cat up a Tree or on the Tailgate where we Hunt! CJC

BuddyW writes:

“Have you guys Ever considered That you need better or different dogs?”

Yes Buddy, Dad is always looking to upgrade his Hounds. Very few Cat Hunters have and do invest the time and money to search out Hounds that can UPGRADE what he has. Including investing in importing Hounds from overseas! Ain’t found it yet but we are very much working on it! Terminating 90+ % of our jumped Races where we know how they end(treed, holed, put in a pile, or on the tailgate) is not the perfection that Dad strives for. CJC


Mr. Dewey wrote:
Different area's have different conditions to hunt in and most people in an area have the way it can be done. Until some one comes into that area and disproves some of the old beliefs for that area. This should open up a lively discussion. One does not know what they don't know? When you understand this statement, it can open up a lot of doors. Being human we all are guilty this. Dewey”

One can always tell how smart someone is by how much they think alike….Mr. Dewey & Dad could be twins... could rank right up there with Einstein, Hillary Clinton, or Michelle Obama! CJC

BuddyW writes:
“Now before you think that I'm just Busting you Balls, or Disrespecting you. I might be, I Might not. But this is only a slam for someone with an ego. I'm not Some Great Cat hunter, So Don't Take my advise. I'm still learning and I've read what you have to say, But It Doesn't make sense to me..”

BuddyW, please read the passage above! (Just testing the new rules!) To quote Donnie Gay, 8 time world champion Bull rider…”It ain’t Bragging if you can do it”!CJC

Sure wish Buddyw, that you or some else with the Magic one or two Hounds will take me up on my offer and come disprove our old beliefs for the area where we hunt!

C. John Clay
Dads dogboy

[Hipshooter]

I am still looking for that
Getter done, one dog pack. or 2 dog pack.

[Buddyw]

"One who doesn't know and doesn't know that he doesn't know."

I was just asking questions? seeing if the answer would reflect on the question or rather Challenge the question.

If I were To be completely honest It was actually more of a question about Open Minds to style rather than a personal question about your dogs. I tend to learn more from folks who help someone find their style rather than try and adopt or copy yours.

Hipshooters remark.. As I read it, Was open minded. (there could be more to his answer and I just missed the joke)

When someone with a Closed mind asks others to open Their mind, that sends up flags to me.

The best lessons I've learned come from my failures. Especially with hounds, Many times during my failures and lessons, I had someone who knew better than I, they knew I was going to fail, They did not try to stop me, They didn't tell me or Demand me to do it their way. They patiently went through the Failure right beside me and let me learn.

I'm not trying to disprove your method or style or your dogs, I'm trying to see If you would be a good mentor, or a good lecturer.

Some of you guys would make good Lecturers. That's Not a bad thing. For me personally, I tend to trend towards good Mentors.

I think think there are many ways to catch cats, (Although I have a hard time finding one way myself ) I've got no intention of Going anywhere to prove anyone wrong. If I'm ever down there with dogs and can find some land, I'm going to go hunting without any expectations.

Dewey said it best when he said to get out and walk behind the dogs..

[dwalton]

C.John Clay: thanks for the complement, at least I think that is what it was???? Einstein now that sounded pretty good who ever he was but now those other two, well I get fuzzed up real quick when it comes to politics. One of these days I am going to have to show up out there and see some good dogs work those pine thickets. It is good to see your post. It seems that some people think we are making them wrong and we have it right. That is not so. It is just sharing what works for us, if it does not work for then fine. It does not matter one bit to me, I know what works for me. I have nothing to gain by sharing what I have learned from others and years of being behind cat dogs. In my youth hunting for Cap Atwood he would not let me ride a mule. My job was to stay with the hounds. It took me years to learn what a gift he gave me. Thanks for the post Buddy it cleared up your line of thought for me. Failure is a learning process. Dewey

[briarpatch]

C. John Clay, Hipshooter, dWalton, IMO you guys got it right!! At least in the thick cover, dry, etc. like Texas......do not know anything about hunting in the snow.

Have always appreciated all of your posts and, C. John I hope you can overlook some of the unfortunate past and continue to post.

briarpatch