Will A Lions Claim another Lions Kill

[Brent Sinclair]

One of our collared females was on a mule deer kill so the Techs placed a camera to get some data.
Then a acoulpe days later we find one of our other females in the same area so we download the collar and see that see has been at the kill of the first female.
The techs get the card and when they open the photos, not only is the second female on the kill but an uncollered third lion!!!
Is this a sub adult male and is it one of her kittens?
I guess our only option is to find her next kill and place another camera.
The question I have is who made the initial kill, the first female or the uncollared cat?

[horshur]

One of our collared females was on a mule deer kill so the Techs placed a camera to get some data.
Then a acoulpe days later we find one of our other females in the same area so we download the collar and see that see has been at the kill of the first female.
The techs get the card and when they open the photos, not only is the second female on the kill but an uncollered third lion!!!
Is this a sub adult male and is it one of her kittens?
I guess our only option is to find her next kill and place another camera.
The question I have is who made the initial kill, the first female or the uncollared cat?

i asked you if you ever seen a she kill for a tom a while back. LOL. I already knew the answer. The more we know the less we know.

[pegleg]

I don't know about the claiming issue but they will sure feed off another cats kill. I think it's females and their relatives and sub adult males. the big toms don't seem to get their kills raided by anyone. the only time is perhaps when traveling or courting a receptive female. I don't have any proof either way on the toms yet. maybe I'll manage a camera on a kill with out the over whelming desire to chase him getting in the way of knowledge. I think even adult females cubs will come check out moms kill if they aren't doing well. it may just be universal female sharing hard to tell. get them to run some dna and answer our questions.

[Brent Sinclair]

Pegleg
You have a good point, we have collected DNA from every lion we have collared now jut to get a few $ for them to run the tests.
I feel the same with females and sub adults sharing a kill, this one however seems a bit different in the fact that lion #1 was there origionaly and now she has left and these other two moved in.
I'm thinking this is her sub adult male kitten.
We'll geo back to see if female #2 was anywhere close to that location before we found #1's GPS points there.

horshur
I remember you asking that question.
I do not think an adault female will make a kill with the intentions of feeding both her and the tom, I do know and have several days on HD video of a female and a big tom on an elk, not one time was there any indication that they were a breeding pair, with several hours of film we never saw any activity relating to that behavour.
For the first day the female was the only lion on the elk kill then the tom showed up.
Both lions fed on the elk for close to 9 days.
It seems apparent from some of this that they will and do tolerate one and other like you said Pegleg ,it is very likely they are family related.
Mike Leonard and I talked a bit about this awhile back and you guys are lookin at the same tracks on it.....
I'll try to keep you up t date on what we find out with the DNA.
MT. has asked for some as they are doing some work there so that to will be interesteing.

[Big Mike]

I don't think they claim other kills but they do share them. I personally believe that they will go out and seek another lion to share the kill. Sometimes it a female and its subs and sometimes its females and toms. I think it happens more when they are breeding with adult females and adult toms. I have seen some evidence of this in my hunting but nothing concrete, just my opinion of the evidence.

I have always felt lions are a lot more social than people think and studies like this are showing it more and more.

[horshur]

I think somtimes a female will work for a male to keep her kittens alive from another Tom. Kinda a relationship of convenience with on of her grown sons. I have seen somthing like this twice now.

[Brent Sinclair]

Our camera and the GPS show that female #1 returned to the kill 2 days ago, so it appears they are sharing the kill and tolerating each other.
Some daytime photo's show good markings on the uncollared lion so he is young which we know, this tells to me that it is very likely female #2's kitten and is likely to get kicked out sometime soon.

The grizzly about cleaned up the kill so we are looking for her next one to place cameras on and see if the uncollared tom stays with her.

[Dan V]

Mr Sinclair,

I want to thank you for all of the pictures and information you contribute to this site. I appreciate you sharing with the rest of us.

Dan

[Brent Sinclair]

Mr Sinclair,

I want to thank you for all of the pictures and information you contribute to this site. I appreciate you sharing with the rest of us.

Dan

Thanks for the comment Dan
I have learned alot from the replys and others comments to several of my posts.
I am by no means an authority on lions or hounds, I have been fortuniate that I have been able to make a living and careere in a field so many pay dearly for.
I has had it's price however.
Glad I can share what has been alot of fun the last couple seasons doing the lion captures, thanks to everyone on here for their feed back and input, we're never to old to learn.
Let's continue to work toward preserving not only a sport but a valuable wildlife management tool through the use of hounds.
It is men and women like so many on this site that make that possiable.
There are differences of opinion as well as agenda, but if we can look beyond those barriers and work together for the betterment of all we are the winners.
Take a Kid Hunting, you will be glad you did.

Thanks to everyone for all your comments and replys.

Good Hunting

[johnnie hamilton]

Brent, I have seen multiple times where a tom and female share a kill. The best one that I have seen was a kill in the snow in Southeast Colorado. There were two adult females with each female having two subadults in tow. They worked out across a cholla flat and split up in the snow. They worked a draw where they seemed to work as a group. One of the females went to the back of the draw and the other came in from the side. They killed a muledeer doe and all six were eating on this kill.

Another time a friend of mine Jay Waring, trailed a big tom into a deer kill. The tom had killed three half grown kittens. Jay took pictures of the kittens. I am sure a female had made the kill and he bumped into the kill and killed her kittens.

[Mike Leonard]

Interesdting Johnnie,

No doubt the two females were most likely mother and daughter and the older female was probably at least 7 years old or older.

The tom most likely was a transient tom and very likely the territorial tom had been killed or had been displaced. Newbee got his way and killed his former competitor's get and most likely got a meal as well. Probably won't be long and he will get the action in the area too. LOL! Ain't nothin but a thing.....

[johnnie hamilton]

Mike, The big tom that killed the kittens Jays hunter ended up harvesting. It actually killed one of Jays good old dogs that day. It seemed to be a tom in its prime. That southeast corner is privately owned and has a high population of lions in the canyons. I know this year we caught a tom out there that had been in a pretty good fight with another lion.
I enjoy hunting on the dirt out there goes you usually can get some trailing in.

Do not know about the females with the subadults we never even tried to trail them. It would have been interesting to know if they were mother and daughter with a pair of kittens each.

[BLACK RHINO]

Brent. Some clarification. Two different cameras. And pic count is huge. First and third pic would say is same Female and older juvenile. Middle pic is different camera and far off pic count. And could say the same for the gap between first and third pic. But looks like the same pair. Clarify the gaps and such and I would have A clearer opinion.

Rhino.

[Brent Sinclair]

Brent. Some clarification. Two different cameras. And pic count is huge. First and third pic would say is same Female and older juvenile. Middle pic is different camera and far off pic count. And could say the same for the gap between first and third pic. But looks like the same pair. Clarify the gaps and such and I would have A clearer opinion.

Rhino.

Rhino
We only have one on this kill so it's the same camera, we have one photo of the cats nose on the lens as they touched it during the night.
All are the same cats, 9:37 pm 10;38 pm and the next morning at 6;39am Original cat was a different cat.
When you have it set up to take a photo every 2 minutes it does not take long and you have a high picture count.
I have had as many as 2500 or so on one SD Card from one location...