how many dogs do u need to effectively run bobcats?

[cohoundsman]

mike,

Here in colorado its pretty dry. Most g who run bobcat here do it with one or two dogs. In this country if you run to many dogs on a bob, alot of the time they half wipe out the scent runnng over the top of the track to much, trying to make it work out for them, so less dogs usually work better.

[Warner5]

Dewey, Dogboy, Buddy & many others. There really is no right or wrong way. this is bobcat hunting there are to many variables for it to be that simple. some cats require finesse to be put up a tree,(proper timing) others power,(& proper timing) many times finess then power or vice versa.(& did I mention proper timing) Each cat a person runs has a bag of tricks to throw at you. As cat hunters we learn what tricks a cat is beating us with and adjust our approach. Here's a cat hunt story. where I hunt there are quite a few cat hunters so most cats are educated. I had run this particular cat 3 times & he'd beat us(me & my dogs) 3 times. I was running 4 dogs & they did well each time but the cat still got the better of them. This cat knew what to do, as soon as he heard a dog open he started with his bag of tricks. The dogs were beat before they really got started, yes it sounded good but they were losing. 4th time I went after this cat I switched things up a bit, I left all my dogs home except my old tight mouthed male & 1 fast tight mouthed up & comer. Instead of driving, I walked in this time. I could tell they were starting a cat by the way they were bouncing back and forth tails up high and wagging. They tracked silent for 20min not a single bark, when they did open they were jumped & putting it to him. 400yrds later the cat was up. How did they do it? they scared the hell out of him with proper timing, finesse & power all at the right time. So- how many dogs do u need to effectively run bobcats? The right one's. Thankyou. John.

[dwalton]

John you know one of the main secret to bob cat hunting if you know it or not. Cats do what cats do, they learn ways to get away from the dogs. The key to making cat dogs and catching cats is.... You got to be smarter than the cat you are the cat hunter, the dogs are just a tool as long as you expect the dogs to do it you will get what the dogs are capable of doing. The dogs hunt with you not you with the dogs. You are the brains and you used them to catch that cat. Good job. Dewey

[Hipshooter]

Lot of talk on here about to many dogs on cat.
If u cull all the dogs that bark off track
& bark when they are behind & use only the dogs that
bark on track & in front or very close to the front.
I think u can run several dogs ok.
I don,t think dogs ruin the scent as they run over it.
This is dryland, I don,t know any thing snow.
I think the big trouble is dogs barking out of place
& slowing up the race.
If u do this u might be down to 2 dogs & that
is the reason they do better.
The way to tell if your dog
is barking off track is wait for a little snow
& then see if the cat track is where your dog is barking
if he is 50 yards off track, might want to idle that dog.
Good coyote & bear dogs can run off track some, because there
is so much scent in the air, but not so much with bobcats
They just don,t put out that much stink like a bear or coyote.

[Deff]

I once had a B&T/ Heeler cross that happened to look “pure hound”. That dog didn't have an especially cold nose, wasn't real quick, and she pretty much ran silent although she did have a “foghorn” bawl to announce when she located the cat.. Since she didn't have a cold nose -- the trails were short. Since she ran silent and ambushed the cats – they appeared to be totally unnerved, staring down at that mutt with no apparent desire to ever leave that tree! I honestly thought back then that any kind of sorry mutt could tree bobcats consistently!

Later on, a friend gave us an old B&T dog . He was just a old slow “track straddler” , but patient and polite with pups and pretty darn good at locating coons. One quirk of his was that his voice carried strangely---The closer you were to him—the farther away he sounded. (He single handedly inspired me to buy my 1st Garmin tracking unit). Danged if it wasn't unusual to find him under a tree barking up at a bobcat! So much for how tough it is to tree bobcats!!!

My main dog now is a well bred big game/ lion hound. She is “cat crazy”, has grit, stamina, a cold nose, a loud bawl mouth and drifts a track faster than I would have ever thought possible. I never saw a better dog at deciphering tricks, taps and run-backs --- and Brother-- It's because she's had lots of practice! You start a track at daybreak, you're still going around in circles when it gets dark that evening! It is common to have her put a cat up a tree just to have it bail as you approach. It isn't that she is doing anything wrong, it's just that with her hunting style, the cats can hear where she is at all times and have time for evasive maneuvers. She's good at treeing coons, but it will take the addition of another hound or two to shake things up enough to consistently catch bobcats. I'm pretty sure that with the right hound(s) running with her, she would be flat amazing!

I guess if there is a moral to my story it's: Bobcats are different ---- some pretty dang good hounds can get totally humiliated by them—some pretty sorry mutts can make them look easy!!!

[Dan Edwards]

These last two posts are pretty dang good.

[Nolte]

I guess if there is a moral to my story it's: Bobcats are different ---- some pretty dang good hounds can get totally humiliated by them—some pretty sorry mutts can make them look easy!!!

Deff,
This is a great statement. A guy needs to evaluate a dog on the overall landscape of the hunt. Some are real easy, the first cat I ever harvested took 7 minutes from put down to cat on my shoulder. Have had a LOT of long fruitless hunts since though. If a guy can connect on some cats with a dog in many different conditions on many different cats, you've got a pretty good cat dog (or at least one that can run them a bit)

As for the question, I seem to have to better success (still very small small amount) by using 2-3 dogs hunting in the snow. More dogs seems to clutter it up, then again not enough dogs and they can't find the out track quick enough. We don't dry ground on purpose because we don't have enough cats and you'd spend a lifetime training one dog. Most times it's a two part process here, a cold trail (could be LONG) and then a quick jump circle which go on to another. I haven't had much luck if they get out of that second circle, because most times they go back to the first circle and it gets all hosed up. It's real hard to get a dog that can do both parts well.

[Dan Edwards]

I haven't had much luck if they get out of that second circle, because most times they go back to the first circle and it gets all hosed up. It's real hard to get a dog that can do both parts well.

I know I should never comment on a cat thread but I got a big mouth so I cant keep it shut. I know nothin about cats but I have found this to be very true on coyotes even. I'm not sayin they circle like a cat at all but if a dog dont put alot of heat on them and get it done "fast" I dont think you will be catching "that coyote".

[Riverbottom]

I'm no cat hunter but here's my 2 cents.
So much depends on why you are out there. Is killing cats your main goal, or are you hooked on the feeling you get from hearing a big pack of hounds locked on and closing in? Are your cats tree game or running game? If you are hunting tree dogs, it don't make sense for you to hunt a pack. Running dogs have been bred for hundreds of years to hunt in packs.
I started out coon hunting for money. After skinning about 1000 coons the thrill of pulling the trigger kind of wore off. The thrill I got from a good chase never did wear off. I eventualy figured out that running a pack of beagles after snowshoe hare was the most fun I could have with hounds in my country. The more GOOD dogs, working together as a pack, the better.
Breeding, training and hunting a pack aint easy. It takes lots of time, money, skill and experience as a houndsman to put down a good pack of hounds on the ground. Buddy, that front runner you mentioned would be culled in about 2 seconds. You have to have a level, smooth running pack that works together. Any dog that screws things up can't stay. I like dogs that run the track and not the pack. When they have the line they better not listen to what any other dog is doing, when they don't have it they better find it or use the other dogs to get back in the race.
Then there are so many other things you have to learn and to breed for. You can't keep dogs that fight over food, or anything else. You need dogs that handle. You can't have dogs that chase deer. And then you need to cull good dogs just because they don't fit in with the pack. Too fast or slow or what not. And then what's the point if they have a voice that hurts your ears? Those kind can ruin your whole day. I want lots of volume and it needs to sound like a hound.
I hunt on snow about 5 months out of the year and bad conditions make your dog's faults stand out. Faults that you don't notice on the good days will kill the race on the bad days. But you can still run a pack on the bad days. You just need better dogs. NorWester, if you are reading this you can show them
Sounds like a big waste of time and hard work and money and it is. But when you are hopelesly addicted to the feeling you get from hearing a big loud pack running like they mean to kill something, you realy don't have much choice.

[dwalton]

Riverbottom: A great post you know what it takes to make a good hound, working to there fullest. I love to run rabbits its just been a while the cat hunting bug has got to big of a hold on me to do much of any thing else. You would make a great cat hunter if you lived out here. I could almost see and hear the little hounds as I was reading your post. Dewey

[MasterHoundsman]

If you can't catch a bobcat with one or two dogs, then you have a bunch of pot lickers that need to go. It is crazy to read through the posts how one dog can't get it done. I'll agree, if I brought my lab along, I'm sure he won't be able to tree one by himself. If I brought a good hound along, he should have a good chance of catching it. Apparently there are a few people on here who have no clue what a good hound is all about. Many houndsmen have great dogs and know what the capabilities of a true hound are. One or two good hounds can catch game. For those of you that think you must run a pack, I feel sorry for ya. Apparently several of your dogs are lacking abilities that are required for this sport. Dumping a pack of dogs on a hot track, you are hoping that one will eventually spot it and catch up to it. I've seen the races, and the quality of hounds involved. Until youv'e hunted with good hounds, you'll never know the difference.

[Hipshooter]

Masterhoundsman,

Good post if u hunt cats in snow.
Where I hunt no one dog catches cats
except by accident.
I bet if u ask Mr Clay about one dog pack.
He would say, buy accident only
& he has seen thousands of cat dogs & owned thousands.
In heavy cat population a silent dog might get it done once in a while.
Of the guys that catch 200 or 300 cats a year
Ask them if they have any one dog catchers
& they will roll in the grass laughing.
John, maybe will post on this.
I hope I haven,t started a pi$$,en match here.

[dwalton]

Somebody has miss the point. I catch cat all time with one dog. Most of my dogs can and have caught cat by themselves. It is a lot easier and faster to do it with a pack and a lot more fun training the young ones by running them in a pack. The tough cats that have been trained up can be pretty easy with a pack that is good.A pack of dogs that are not cat dogs will cat very few cats. They will catch it a lot faster. My dogs are trained on bare ground but hunted a lot in snow. I have hunted all over the west and seem to luck out catching cat where ever I go. I have not hunted the south or midwest but I could catch cats there any way I wanted. It may take a little time to figure it out but I would. If it is the dogs or me who knows some say I could catch a cat with a poodle. I just choose not to. I have caught several with one airedale. Most of what people know about cat hunting that they are sure of can be disproven. I have been wrong in the past and will be wrong again but I come from close enough to Missouri that I have to shown. Dewey

[pegleg]

the hunting style has a good deal to do with this regardless have how badly i will be looked down on for this statement here it is. in one of the above post someone spoke of a heelerX and others of a few dogs catching cats. the right dog will catch a higher percentage of the cats it OPENS on. here is why, that dog will not open on anything but the freshest tracks, the dog is damn smart and it is really wanting to stretch that cat. the problem is that dog won't run many tracks in a season so it's overall number will be much lower then a good pack running in a area with a lesser population of cats. then you have those pop up cats where that dog came in on him napping and out sprinted him.
I have a large pack I run and have owned some "single handed" dogs. if you run them together things get real interesting. you run Way more tracks cover the cold trailing quicker and the hot track is a slam dunk even on the squatters and ledge hoppers cause those smart thinking hounds don't get distracted like others when the trick bag is opened and hunt more for the cat then honoring a loss.
they aren't real common but they happen. it's not going to increase your odds if you have a whole pack of them because their limitations are all the same but you get those different strengths together it starts to work. IMHO

[Dads dogboy]

AAH Hipshooter,

You are one of the Few who have traveled to several different regions to see how the successful Bobcat Hunters are getting it done.

When Wayne Hester can catch over 300 in a year, he must be doing something right!

The sad fact is that for many GOOD Hunters they will not run 300 Cat in a lifetime much less weigh them. As we have said many times most Very Good Bobcat Hunters never hunt more than 30 miles from home…most raise their own Hounds, and really do not care what others are doing.

This is OK!

Many things will work SOMETIME. Hipshooter, you remember Dads Penney bitch, she has Popped up over half a dozen Cats in the 6 years that Hootie and or Dad hunted her. These were very Hot Cat sitting beside the road.

However she contributed in the Pack on terminating well over 800 Bobcats before we retired her to MO.

Now if I were hunting for Hides, would I have a Box of Clay Hounds…hell NO. I would find one of those good Leopard Curs, ride the roads till it struck or find a HOT Track and put it down. If properly trained I would darn sure gather my share of Hides.

Now if I am trying to Catch that Cat who may have walked a while ago and I am in this Big BAD country that is full of Briars and Water that goes for miles and miles; And I am running Bobcats that have been Trained by Packs of Deer Hounds; Trying to Catch the wiliest varmint in the woods that has in its DNA every trick that can baffle a Hound, who knows every water hole, culvert, leaning tree, road, railroad track, rockpile, Deer yard, etc in his home territory….I might want to read Mr. Dewey’s Post above several times.

Would sure like to know who bestowed the moniker “Masterhoundsman” on this person…sounds like it could be BuddyW being tricky to get some EGO baiting going.

Masterhoundsman – what was your talley sheet like this past year as far as tracks started then finished! Inquiring minds want to Know!

This is signed CJC as this is my opinion, Dad says to get off this danged thing and let the Know it alls have it!

CJC