Jeff Allen's Pepper dog? Nance breeding?

[Lost River]

Anyone hunted with this dog? Just bought him on Jeff's advice. Have never owned a Walker so I am curious and looking forward to trying out some of this Nance breeing. Casey

[Budd Denny]

I tried to buy that dog last spring, Jeff told me he was going to be a super star and he really didn't want to let him go.

[Lost River]

Budd,
I had to photoshop a couple pics of him with a goat and threaten to post it on the internet No, really it was a timing thing. I had bought another dog from him and also a pup. The pup is looking pretty shiny and I have a little red female that he is thinking he wants pups out of both. So we hammered out a deal. Besides that, Jeff runs pretty much all females and he had a fella throw a bunch of dogs in the neck of the gooseneck trailer. Two males and a few females, one of which was in heat. The fella had a wreck and Jeff is cutting all males and couldn't bring himself to cut Pepper. Casey

[Wimpy]

I have hunted with Jeff Allen and I was impressed enough with Pepper that I chose to have him breed my papered female, the best in my pack, Sunny. I can't believe Jeff has decided to part with Pepper. They are very impressive little pups, 2 months old now. I still have a couple to sell, they are on the classified forum, http://www.biggamehoundsmen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=22515.

[twist]

Lost River just curious to what this dog goes back to as for the nance in him? thanks, Andy

[Lost River]

Wimpy,
I think I was in the right place at the right time. Jeff has a full littermate to Pepper (dog's name is Salt) and he feels they are pretty much equal in ability so it didn't make much sense keeping both of them and he felt the dog could end up being a top producer so he didn't want to have him cut.
I have two females that we want to cross back onto his line and it just worked out that I caught Jeff in the right moment. I feel really fortunate to have become friends with Jeff in a short amount of time. I feel really honored that he would trust me with this dog (I am paying for him of course) but I could tell by his voice there was serious tone I hadn't heard before when we discussed sending Pepper to my place in Montana.
When I talked to Jeff last night he said, "Boy oh boy stud you really poked a hornet's nest! I had some mad hombres calling me wanting to know why I didn't call them to tell them I was selling Pepper." I sure didn't mean to stir anyone up. If you are happy with the litter and those pups work out the way you like, Pepper will be available to you. You make the stud fee arraingments through Jeff and we will be sure to get the two together again.

Twist,
I bet Wimpy maybe able to talk on this a little better than I can. Jeff laid it out for me a few months ago, but I wasn't looking at getting Pepper so I didn't commit it to memory. But if memory serves me correctly.... Ace is Pepper's sire. Ace is by Sampson out of one of his old line females. Pepper's mom is also by Sampson out of another one his old Nance dog's. Some very tight blood there. Wimpy if you can clarify or correct me please feel free to correct me.
Happy hunting, Casey

[festus]

Lost River,
Are you talking about the Ace II dog? If so, he is out of Sampson but his mother is not out of Jeffs old dogs. Not trying to start anything just wondering.

[Wimpy]

The way that I understand Pepper's pedigree is he goes back to Jeff’s old Ace dog on both top and bottom sides. The mother of this dog (Ace) was named Judy and Judy was a dog that Jeff got from Leon Cox. That was the mother to some of the great old stuff.

I’ve been playing this game for a long time now; over the years, I have hunted behind some great dogs like Van Johnson’s Old Blue dog, the dad to L.B. (Little Blue). In all this time, I kept hearing about dogs that went back to Judy. So when Jeff told me that she was great and great-grandmother, both top and bottom sides, I decided to give him a shot, and what I am seeing with these pups so far, I am liking a lot. That’s about all I can tell you about Pepper. Wish that I had the means to come up with him.

What I know and have seen of this dog, I really feel that he could become one of the rare dogs that are worth up to $10,000.

[hunt14]

It would be interesting to know the details on his background. When you find out LR let us know would ya?

[festus]

I know what you mean Lloyd I wish I had a whole yard full of that old Ace dogs pup's. Beleive me if I had the cash right now, I would be jumping on one of your pup's you have for sale there out of Pepper and Sunny.

[hunt14]

old Ace or Nance Ace? Who we talkin here?

[festus]

I was refering to Jeff's old Ace out of his old grade stock. However, Jeff's old grade dogs have a healthy shot of the old Nance's Topper blood in them as well as a healthy dose of that old black majestic female Jeff got from Stan Mecham.
That old black majestic female was responsable for alot of well known southern utah dirt dogs as well.

[Wimpy]

Yes, Festus, that is the way that I understand it, and Bonny, that old black Majestic female, is on top and bottom in his breeding too.

Just a side note, this is one example of why pedigrees written down or official papers are so helpful. I believe that Jeff has had three dogs named Ace; the one we are talking about, the dad to Buck that just got killed, and the one that is out of Sampson.

[Lost River]

Gents,
I appreciate the insight. I tried to call Jeff tonight but he must be busy ushering people on horseback and telling wild hunting stories. It is interesting you bring up the Bonnie dog. My little boy bought a pup from Jeff when we were down there. When we got home my son Duncan decided he was gonna name her Bonnie. I was chatting with Jeff and told him that and he chuckled and said that oughta work because she had a Bonnie in her lineage three times. He said she is also heavy Goswick bred. I guess this is why he wants to breed back to her so bad.
The pup is now 6 months old and will move out with the old dogs when they strike. If it really gets moving she slowly falls behind because she isn't physical enough yet to go that hard, but will trail all the way to the tree if you let her. She will tree really well as long as it is low enough she can lock eyes with it, she hasn't quite got the locate down but I am very optimistic about what I have seen thus far.
Here is Dunc and her at about 3 1/2 months old working on a little "this n that".



Here is a cross I might be makeing next spring. She is a little grade red female that comes from a fella in Washington state that is a bobcat/bear man. She is out of a red and white walker looking female and a little english/blue male. She is a ball of fire and I will throw a couple pics of up for ya to see. She took off at about 5 months old and seems to get better and better every race. The one snow pic is her first solo tree on a lion at about 6 months. Even at 10 months old she has led the way on some races already. She seems to get better each time out, and when she falls out of a race or makes a loss she seems that more driven to get back into it and work it out. Very happy with her.

[Mike Leonard]

I have had a few dogs out of the orginal old stock Ace and I will say this. My best ever female lion hound was an own daughter of Ace. Her name was Kate and although she has been gone some years now I re-live a lot of hunts with this dog in my mind and recently I have come to a different conclusion about her. She was not just the best female lion hound I have owned, she was the best dirt lion hound i have ever hunted with.

That's pretty strong, so if you can lay hands on some of this blood I would say go for it. I have a half brother to that female who is out of the same mother but sired by Hank who was an own son of Ace. He is a fair dog and very cold nosed but not even close to the same class Kate was in. Kate, Bones, Tick, Jazz and a few others of the same cross made a lot of history.

I had an own son of Ace named Smoke that was out of a Wiley Carroll female. I got this dog and a few others when famous old hunter Glenn McHarg passed away and I had told him I would take care of his old dogs till they passed. This dog was basically unhunted and gettting pretty old becasue Glenn had been sick a long time. This hound could take a bad track in the desert with high heat and leave with it where other supposedly good lion hounds could not even bark on it.