What type of hound

[tomtom]

Poser, from reading your info and posts from you and about you, and if you really exist outside of bloggersville, i'm pretty sure you have forgot more than most know about great hounds. When I asked if this post was serious, I typed that cause it seemed like something may have come up or somebody might not have been happy with how you trained their dog or something. I don't know. Just seemed like a pretty simple question from a pretty advanced dog guy who should be advising wannabes like me on the best answer. You can slow a dog down but you can't speed him up so I like dogs that generally are a pain in the ass, but only if I can get them as a puppy.

[poser]

Kevin, i understand what your saying and i agree. A dog, not a pup needs to end up at the tree regardless. But....when you get the chance to really watch your dogs in different situations what can you tolerate...or put up with as opposed to sending them down the road?

Here is another example. A guy has a world beater @ 10 months of age that is catching lion and bobcats and out trailing about everything it is hunted with. Here is the flaw, the dog has horrible feet and can only be hunted a day at a time free casting on horses and making big loops. So if you hunt weekends, out of a truck or 4 wheeler or sled you would probably never have a problem with the dog. On the other end, if you hunt several days in a row and make big loops the dog is about useless.

Most of us want the world beater....what is your world beater? It all depends on the type of hunting that you are doing imo. Most people would be more then satisfied with the above dog, other would cull her. Some wouldn't even know what they had and someone else would think they had the best dog in the world.

Another thing i love is when someone calls to buy a dog. After they ask about how cold nosed they are and how many day old track they can run they ask can they catch their own game...bear, lion, bobcat.

I dont want a dog just because it can catch its own game. I have seen a lot of dogs that can catch their own lion and most of them are never in the front of the races we have. BUT turn them out on their own track and they will get it caught. This seems to please most people.

So what makes you keep a dog around your place?

Thanks, jason

[poser]

Tomtom, im just an idiot looking for ideas and some discussion about hounds. I dont have a clue and stumble around the mountain most of the time. Anyone can get lucky once in awhile and i am proof of that.

Take care, jason

[Geno]

i like dogs that can eat and shit!!

[krk hunting]

Jason,

I am going to go out on a limb on this for a beating. Just like you said before what is important to me is not always important to others. Alot of times I may not have even thought about a certain trait because it does not fit my hunting situation. (That is where the catching game comes in I dont ever do that so it dont matter if my dogs can put them up as long as i am hunting with someone that can)
I can only speak for myself and the most important thing to me is the ground work, if that is not completed or can not be completed I dont care how good the dog is it is worthless to me. If I have to put a dog on a leash to keep it anywhere or have control of it. That dog needs to meet his maker.

The next most important thing is desire/brains that will all wrap into ability, I can work around all the other problems if need be. If I have a dog that is a barn burner and their feet wont hold up I need to put them in the hands of someone that will hunt them where they can. This will then benifit someone that is hunting 1-2 days a week and move on to spending my time and kennel space to what fits my needs.

Alot of people ask about cold nosed dogs because they really dont know what they need or want and we will save that cold nosed for another day. lol

I will give you an example of what I mean when I say what fits my needs, I had a walker/blue ticked grade male that was a great rigg dog for bear and decent lion dog. When I say great I mean Honest truck to trre type dog, but not great in the fact he would rigg bears that many others would drive past and never make a peep. If he rigged you could bet there was a bear track or a bear SOMEWHERE. When I would let him off the truck he would go in search of the track and sometimes it may be a track or bear he winded up the canyon a quarter mile away and got to cold trailing on this, sometimes to far out to be heard but he would not come back to the truck he would continue hunting till he found the track or jumpped the bear. This is where i thought his down fall for me was, it put him on bears by himself (alot) which cost me a few vet bills that I think we may have eliminated a few if he had some backup, ya he treed some bears by himself and walked a lot by himself but what it did was made for a long day looking for him and trying to get him some help turned in he would still be cold trailing or walking a bear alone. There was always a track or a bear when you found him though. But he burned up alot of time when we could have went another few miles and rigged a fresher track. This dog did not fit my hunting style I sold it to a young man and he thinks this dog was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Ever bear he rigged he did it as if the bear was on the side of the road.

[Nolte]

Jason,

I think it all depends on what I've got in the yard. I'm always looking for something better. If I somehow had a bunch of rock stars tied out, I'd probably put up a with a little less. With what I've got now, well the bar is quite a bit lower.

If I found a dog that could jump every night old bear track in Sept-Oct and stay caught on it until I could get it some help, I'd probably let that sucker sleep in my bed while I took the couch. I think I'd probably put up with a lot for a dog like that.

A so-so dog better be good acting around the yard or he's fixing on being replaced. The better they do hunting wise, the more crap I'll put up with.

[Airedale From NY]

I find that a dog that is well balanced suits me best for most hunting, any time I get a dog that is too over the top in one area it seems like it screws up the whole works.

Al

[Dan V]

Conformation, feet, durability and abilty to handle heat and cold. They have to have the body to carry them there...yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Genetic Drive (given to the dog at conception)- prey drive is a must, so is tracking and trailing drive. Genetically the dog has got to WANT to kill prey; and the dog better naturally want to stick on a bad track. The dogs that work well for me tend to come home with a bloody nose, lips and tail.

Brains and trainability

[poser]

Good responses fellas. What about tracking speed? I know there are all kinds of conditions that change things but i personally like a dog that can move a track fast....and even if its tough trailing i want them trying to move in rather then boo hoooin on it all day. I have seen some really nice dogs that will flat out move a rough track and catch things 1/2 mile ahead of everything else. And im not talking about one good dog and some junkers.

Treeing is something not mentioned or that i missed. What does a tree dog have to do to keep a spot at your place? I wish mine would stay out of the trees but i can tolerate that. I can also tolerate a loose treein dog as long as they are not trailing out or leaving. I like a dog that will stay treed for days but i have had plenty that would only hold overnight that i was more then happy feeding.

Just to bring up the hard keepers again. What do you guys think about this? I personally wouldn't keep them around after thinking about all the extra dogfood i would be going through in a years time. It adds up....but then again if i was smart and only had a couple of dogs around it might not be such a big deal to me either.

What are some of your ideas about this?

Thanks, jason

[Dan V]

I dont mind tree climbers at all. Those tend to be the dogs who WANT the animal in the tree. Tree climber type dogs tend to do better stopping lions in boulder piles and rocky country where you dont have many trees.

Track speed: Well, its nice having dogs in your pack that can straddle a track and stay on it when needed. Its also nice having some cut and run, faster moving dogs in there.

Bottom line, they have to be able to keep moving FORWARD

[dandavidson]

Hey Jason,

Great thread,
Thanks.
D

[poser]

Dan V, I have had to deal with the tree climbers for a while now. It has cost me a broken leg and a few weeks off for dogs that have gotten sticks speared into them from falling or getting knocked out of the trees. I have friends that wouldn't own a dog that is a climber and they shock them at the tree.....its one of the things that i can look past.

Track speed, for sure a dog has to keep moving forward for me also but i have seen some incredible dogs "dont own one yet, but it is something i strive towards" that can trail tough tracks and still move them better then the straddle track dogs. Once again a well rounded pack goes along ways but this is the type of dog that i would prefer.

The cold nose thing kills me sometimes.... for instance we were working a track in the ledges one day. Dogs were trailing pretty good...moving it....but not fast. Well we were having a good time just watching them and listening when ole frosty say look across the canyon and there was a dog MOVING....through the ledges. Needless to say we ended up with a cat that day but what if that dog wasn't there? What if all you had to compare was the other? Would most of us have been thinking....man these dogs are sure "cold trailing" the heck out of this thing....woooo hoooo! I would have.

Im not saying every fast dog is the way to go. I have seen too many that wanna run instead of trail or they just cant or wont slow down a lil when they need to. But i know a few guys out there that are breeding dogs like this and i want em bad!

Kevin, i think you mentioned earlier about a dog getting themselves lost or no homing instincts. I have dealt with a dog just like that this last year. Every time i took her out she got herself lost...SERIOUSLY! It was frustrating but being the idiot i am i though...i can get this dog to come around. I never got her to one tree....not one!!! She ended up on every side of the mountain there was to go off of. She even went and killed a prized haired sheep, that was expecting a baby of course....so i had to pay for the sheep and the unborn baby at 100lbs @2.00 a pound. Not to mention all the extra gas money it costed me to round her up all the time. NEVER AGAIN!!!

What about a dog that doesn't ever stop running trash? Im not saying a dog that runs trash every time your out but one that never gets broke or that you can't trust. Is this something that you can live with?

What about the treeing thing fellas....what do you expect out of a good tree dog in your opinion, or what can you live with?

Thanks for the replies fellas, jason

[shawn cole]

I like the eat and shit kind too Geno just have some fun is all that matters

[Geno]

You guys get way to serious i just make sure that they eat and shit dont have to worry about track speed cause they dont know how to track and tree havent got that far. I will leave all that to the pros and just dream about the rest!!!!

[Nolte]

I like dogs that get to a tree, sit down and bark enough to let you know they are there. It's not as pretty as a dog that benches the tree and hammers them out, but it's a hellluva lot less headaches. If I had my choice, all my dogs would tree like this.

I don't need a dog that flips out slobbers and goes bannas at a tree, I just need one that locates the critter and lets me know where it's at. I also am not a fan of dogs that run the tree cause eventually it's going to cause a problem. We don't have to worry much about climbing.

As for track speed, I want them going as fast as they can handle it. A cold fast trailer is pretty fun to have around. But I'll deal with a painfully slow trailer if it can jump a critter that nothing else can.