Lion caliber??

[BillyGoatGruff]

I'm looking to get a new caliber for lions? I've been using a T/C prohunter handgun chambered in 7mm-08 w/140 gr nosler partion. works fine but I'm thinking about getting something a little more recoil friendly. I'm leaning towards a 223 barrel as I already have reloading dies for it and then working up a special lion load. something like a 60 gr. nosler partion.
Is the 223 sufficient for taking down a lion? Also it is scoped and very accurate.
I also could work up a lighter load with like a 40 gr. v-max to use on bobcats then carry one gun and two types of bullets? Any recomendations for different bullet types for use on lions? (ballistic tips, v-max, hollow points) what type of bullets work the best?
With the T/C I have a wide choice of calibers to choose from. Would another caliber be better suited for lions? I'm not stuck on the idea of having the one gun two bullet deal. I've been carrying a .22 for bobcats and just switching back and forth depending on what were chasing at the time. Opinions, suggestions welcome
Thanks, BGG

[Doogie]

Use the search button at the top of the page its there for a reason, its been discussed before.


wish I still had the beating a dead horse smiley

[super white hunter]

The 223 is plenty of bullet, especially if your accurate with it, I would stick with 22 for bobcat unless your not selling hides and don't care about holes.

[Mike Leonard]

As superwhitehtner said the 223 is plenty for lions.

I would stay away from 40 Gr. V-Max bullets for lions. I actually prefer a little bigger slower bullet for lions so the 30-30 and 357 carbine or handgun have worked really well for me.

Let me recount a story that made me leary of the V-max bullets at high velocity on lions.

Last year I had a large very irate tom lion bayed on the edge of a sandstone bluff. We had cold trailed for a long time but once he was jumped he only ran a short distance and they overtook him and bayed him out on this bluff. Well we had plenty of time and my hunter was a little older fellow with a bad hip but a very skillful hunter who had been all over the world and his reputation as a shooter was well deserved. After he got in postion and the vidoes and photos were done I slipped in and pulled a couple of the braver dogs back from him and told him to shoot. Well he had informed me that he was carrying a scope sighted 243 with light Hornady v-max varmint loads. I told him be sure to stick him thru the ribs and avoid the shoulder and we should be ok. Well he was very close say 30 feet, but the excitement of the snarling lion and the bellowing hounds might have shaken him just a little. He pulled his shot and hit the lion square in the shoulder. The lion folded and dropped off the bluff but when i ran over to look down he was up and running away. Well the dogs couldn't get right off there with out sailing so i pulled out my model 66 357, and went to work. My first shot on the run went a bit high but my second shot rolled him and he stayed down. Well we worked our way down there and went up to the lion who was just gasping his last from a raking shot with a 158 gr. jacketed hollowpoint. Well I felt sure that his rifle had made a mortal wound but upon inspection we found that the speedy V-max bullet had only blown a patch of hide off the lion's shoulder and only a few fragments had gone into the meat and the bone was not even broken. NO MORE V-MAX ON BIGGER PREDATORS FOR ME!!

[Shorty]

I'm with you on that Mike. If it's bigger than a Praire Dog you can have those V-max bullets all together. In fact I don't and won't own a ballistic tip of any kind. I've seen them fail to do the job way to many times.

I'd say your 223 with a medium to light load pushing a heavier SST would be a great load for lion. Just remember that a 22lr is enough to kill a lion if put in the right spot. The key isn't speed or size but penetration. Even then you don't need to go clean through and into the next county. You just need to get to the organs and destroy them for a quick humane kill. JMHO

[Lost River]

I use a Canon 200mm alot. I have shot some lions over 100 times with it and it never leaves a mark on their hide. It is by far my favorite caliber for lion hunting.

[super white hunter]

I love the v-max, just like anything you have to know how to use it

[jube baker]

218 bee works good, or 22 hornet

[Mike Leonard]

I agree Jube the 22 Hornet or 218 Bee work well. And loaded with their usual vintage type bullets they put the smack on the long tails. I have seen a number shot with both calibers. Some of the deadest quickest lions I have ever seen were with a 32-20 loaded to potential in a Marlin lever rifle, it works very well and i took a man to a 206 pound tom cat and the first shot at 30 feet did the trick. He stiffened on the ledge and as my friend worked the lever and hung it up on a short stroke the giant tom pitched out stone dead.

The V-Max is a fantastic bullet for it's intended use but situations or nerves are not always perfect and one should prepare for the worst because as we all know that the when the wheels come off the cart about the time you thought it was a nice day.

I have punched big dog coyotes in the shoulder with a 223 V-max and had them run off and crawl up in the bowl of a big juniper and go to yapping and barking at me as I come to deliver the Coues De Grawes. Poisen on prairie dogs and marmots, but especially at close range where velocity is still very high they are frangible, and they are desinged to come apart like a varmint grenade.

[BillyGoatGruff]

Thanks for the input
I had my reservations about the v-max type bullets and was looking for your opinons on just that. I have always been a fan of the nosler partion. I was also concidering trying a Barnes Triple Shock which I can get in 62 or 70 gr. in .224 cal. That should be a good lion load.
I already have a sweet .22 that I put together just for bobcats which I will continue to use for them.
After four years of chasing cats and passing on many, maybe this will be the year to take one down with my new gun.
Thanks, BGG

[George Streepy]

I have used a TC chambered in .223 to kill a lion. I hit right where I was aiming as that pistol is very accurate. There was enough penetration and the bullet grazed the heart. The lion came out very much still alive and ran further than any other animal I have ever shot. It was miserable.

I went back to a good old 30-30 and watched them fall out of the tree dead. Not much difference in hide damage but the extra smack goes a long ways. I realize it doesn't take much to kill a lion but I have been much happier with the 30-30.

I would carry a .22 pistol for bobcat and the 30-30 for lions, perfect if you ask me.

[twist]

never used anything but a 22 never had a problem just place a good clean shot. Andy

[Mike Leonard]

Another thing to keep in mind when choosing theat perfect bullet for lions is avoid over penetration. So Mike you are saying avoid the varmint V-max becasue it might blow up on a bone and not reach the vitals and now you are saying avoid a bullet that really penetrated deeply? Well yes in a way I am. Although many hunters never have to deal with bayed lions on the ground in ledges bluffs or rocks many in the southwest do. You have a big tom tearing the crap out of your dogs and about ready to knock or jerk a good one off into outer space and you have to go to work with your smokepole you don't want to worry about smacking him thru the boiler room with a Nosler partiton or Barnes X in a potent rifle and have it sail thru him and kill old Bowser on the other side as in whistles thru on it's way. It's happened many times and it can have such a devastation effect on a hunter who has killed his best friend he may quit the sport.

A nice soft point or jacketed hollowpoint in a moderate rifle and generally you will penetrate ruin the heart and lungs and be lodged under that rubbery hide on the offside, and you will have another trophy mushroomed slugs to show to your friend.

I once smacked a giant tom 3 quick shots from a 41 Magnum with 210 Winchester silvertips. He was dead just didn't knocw it and all thru of thoise big shroomed slugs wee under the offside hide. I have a collection of slugs taken from lions not only I have taken but others using either my Model 92 Rossi 357 Mag with 158 Gr. Jackets Hollowpoints or my Model 66 Smith 357 with 125 Gr. Hollowpoints. I drop back on the weright a bit with the handgun to add a little zip you lose in that short 4" barrel.

there are many good calibers and rifle/handguns combination that work well., just make sure you can shoot it well and put the pill where the pain is.

[jube baker]

Mike i like shooting my 25-35 win that old thing still shoots good.

[super white hunter]

there are many good calibers and rifle/handguns combination that work well., just make sure you can shoot it well and put the pill where the pain is. [/quote]



That about sums everything up right there.