goverment deperdation lion kills go against qota numbers.

[realdog]

Do you all think it is right or wrong for the lions that the goverment hunters kill to go agains the harvest quotas to shut the lion seasons down before the designated date?

[houndnem]

I wish ours did here in utah.

[realdog]

yeah it shuts our season down preety early sometimes cause the goverment guys can snare trap as well as killem at night as well as many other methods that are ilegal to the general public. I know they are doing there job but i wish ther kills didnt go against the quotas so that the season lasted to the end of the designated date.

[Big Horn Posse]

Yes, as it should be. It is a lion harvested period. It makes no difference if it is a houndsman, a government trapper, a warden or a poacher. It is a lion harvested in a particular area and will be added to the quota. Why would a state agency that makes the rules on how many lions taken out of an area make an exception for a damage lion? It is one less lion in that area and that needs to be added to the quota for management purposes. That would not be good management if they made exceptions. Say you have a quota of 15 lions in a hunting season and 4 or 5 are damage lions on top of that that would be 20 lions removed out of that area if they didn't add them to the quota so think about that in a conservation and management scheme of things not as a how less time you have to run before a quota is met and an area is closed.

[realdog]

yes i totaly agree if it was a true scheem of science . but it was just a few years ago that there was no quota and a bounty for killing lions in sheep areas know almost instantly there is a quota . I just wonder if there are so many depredation lions killed does there. really need to be a quota at all or mabey the game is beeing managed through emotion and not science. just seems if there are so many deprdation lions harvested mabey quota numbers could be raised a little so that recreation type hunters could possibly enjoy the hunt a little longer?

[Big Horn Posse]

The game commision sets the quotas on suggestions from both the biologists recommendations and the harvests each year. Usually when they are seeing more depredations in an area and overall harvests the quota is raised until they believe an adequate number of lions have been harvested to slow down the depredations. Sheep areas usually will have a higher mortality quota than areas where there are less sheep and less good lion habitat. If the G&F has put quota in an area that did not have a quota before then they had reason to believe that area has been over harvested and want to manage the numbers taken. Depredations are hard to predict as far as how many you will have each year. The area I am in used to have a lot, but but since they removed a quota here we have seen a lot less this year than the years past. It has also made finding a lion to run a lot harder as they are fewer and farther between. So think of it this way would you rather have more lions to run in a short time with a quota or less lions to run without one? I would prefer the quota myself.

[realdog]

iwould definatly agree on more lions to hunt in shorter time then less to hunt for a longer period of time . but i hunt primarly two zones here. One the quota hardly never gets met stays open till the end lots of snow not alot of deer lot of snow lion hunters and has a lower quota number than the other zone the second zone is dry ground much more fun to hunt warmer more lions more deer,but still not a good population of deer and a larger quota number. however this second zone has so many depredations it usally gets closed early then while the season is closed they usally fill half the next years quota from goverment depredation lion kills. seems like they would worry a little about the prey spieces the deer at some point but i dont think so because of the revenew they get from the deer license fees . seems like a lot of it is political stricly for revenue and catering to the greenie type groups that cry so much at the game commisstion meetings. i dont always see them set the quotas by the bioligist science and recomendations given to the commition

[larry]

you don't have a chase season once the quota is filled? You can't run any lions there once they fill the quota, regardless of how long it takes?

[Big Horn Posse]

realdog, game commisions set their quotas and regulations on more than just what the biologist reccomends. There are political factors, but I will garuantee it is not the bunny huggers whining to them. What you need to do is find out when your next G&F public meeting is and attend. Then you can ask the questions and have them answered. You can also give your input. Houndsmen do not realize that they need ro become involved with this. Any input a houndsman can give to G&F will help not hinder the regulations and quotas the next time it is up for review. Find out when they are going to review the lion hunting regulations and make changes to it. They will hold meetings to discuss these changes. Here it is every 3 yrs after they have made changes to the regulations to see if they are working and need to be changed again. That is something you should look into. G&F can also explain to you why they have certain quota numbers in areas. I just have to say that you are lucky you still have a quota because everything changes when 30 or more cats are harvested in an area a year cause there is not a quota in place

Larry, I do believe MT is the only state that has a chase season after the quota closes for lion.

[Benny G]

In NM predators are managed by emotion. The Game Department doesn't necessarily like it that way, but right now things are mostly like they are because of our last Governor, the POS Bill Dirt Bag Richardson. Because of Mr. Richardson and his crew, science and sound biology have no place in wildlife management. Our sitting Governor has her hands full trying to repair all the damage that was done for the previous 8 years, so wildlife isn't on the top of the list.

[realdog]

larry there is no chase season here would be real nice. benny glad to see others have came to the same conclution as i have. I have been going to the game comm meeting when the lion hase been on the agenda for the past 25 years seems like there has been no science involved for the past 15 years "My wyoming friend" it seems like they issue has been more like we will sale the heck out of the deer and elk permits to get a big fat revenue then put something called quota on lions to satisfy the greenie groups. however when the lions go to killing the heck out of everyones calves we will have our goverment hunter harvest over half the quota for the next year instead of letting the hunters hunt them. Mean while ruining the deer population in the sw and destroying the quality of bulls as well just to get the big revenue. the science says kill the food source and sooner than later you wont have as many lions to hunt . just seems like ther is no balance here in the management. Seems more political and no concern for the results of there actions.

[realdog]

Oh and when they got quotas voted in to effect there was over 250 bunny huggers at the comm meeting that were there to help get it pushed threw. I was there to see all this myself. And just wait when the sportsman figure out there is no deer in the sw and the quality of bulls have gone to pot do to the over sale of licsence. there big pocket stuffin revenue will be gone to..

[houndnem]

yea what you need to push for here is pusuit seasons, not upping the amount of lions killed. in utah we can chase state wide from nov to june and a few units amost year round.

[realdog]

that would be so nice. we have tried for pursuit seasons in the past but no luck. just a few years ago it was year round on private land that was nice but then they came the quota thing and they took year round on private land away. with the richardson admenistration what a peach of a govenor he was for the hound man.

[Jeff Shaw NM]

realdog, im not sure where you got your facts from, I can't remember any quota which was drastically affected by depredation kills! The REAL PROBLEM lies on the dogmen whackin the females causing the units to close early leaving as many as 20 or more possible males left. (Female sub-quota) and im all for it'!