goverment deperdation lion kills go against qota numbers.

[realdog]

zone k ended almost 30 days early last year due to a goverment hunter like you say killing to many females WHICH I HAVE KNOWN HIM AND HIS FAMILY ALL MY LIFE PRETTY MUCH AND HE IS JUST DOING HIS JOB . one thing i think we are on the same page about is killing females and if the game and fish is going to make everyone take the sex test to puchase the licsense they probably shouldnt kill females all together. then like you say there is always plenty of toms left on the quota number . and i recieved my info from the game warden . When i was getting a tom tagged . putting all dog man in one group as all the same i dont know if i agree about that.

[Jeff Shaw NM]

realdog, according to the harvest chart for last year only 1 female and 1 male were taken for depredation 3 females in the bhs column... not sure what that is, but 7 females and only 8 males by sport hunters It says to me that some indescriminate hunters are most responsible for the unit closing early. On another note, it seems that the quota in your units is almost doubled this year! Must be lions under every bush!!! Thats the part of the management scheme i disagree with. Later, Jeff

[realdog]

WELL I CAN TELL YOU THIS FOR SURE SAY YOU ARE A RANCHER AND YOU HAVE A CALF KILL YOU CAN CALL THE GOVERMENT HUNTER UP AND TELL HIM SO HE COMES OVER AND SAYS I WILL CATCH THE LION FOR YOU IF YOU HAVE A TAG YOU CAN SHOOT IT AND TAG IT IT IS YOURS . kNOW WHEN YOU GO TO FILL OUT THE PELT TAG REPORT AND THE QUESTION COMES UP DID YOU USE DOGS YOU SAY YES BECAUSE YOU DID.KNOW THE HARVEST REPORT YOU READ ONLINE SAYS FEMALE KILLED WITH DOGS BUT IT DOESNT TELL THE WHOLE STORY OF HOW IT COMPLETLY TOOK PLACE. IN FULL DETAL. ITSLIKE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR OBAMA CAUSE HE WAS GOING TO FIX EVERYTHING THEN THOSE STUPID PEOPLE NOW SAY WE SURE HAVENT SEEN THE CHANGE HE PROMISED US . HOWEVER I AGREE LIKE I SAID BEFORE ABOUT THE HARVESTING OF THE FEMALES WITH THE WHOLE SEX TEST THEY MAKE YOU TAKE TO PURCHASE THE LICSENSE TO BEGIN WITH. WHY HAVE THE TEST IF THEY ARE GOING TO PROTECT THE FEMALES. And yes there must be alot of lions in zone k if it has been shut down early several times over the last several years. A wise man once said dont believe everything you see on TV. and that was not me by no means. later all, we all seem we think we have it all figured out including me but do we?

[Big Horn Posse]

realdog, a lion depredation harvest will be classified just as that with the G&F. It doesn't matter if the person contracted to harvest the lion uses, hounds or snares. The rancher has to have whatever damage confirmed by G&F to get compinsation for the damage. A rancher cannot make a claim unless it is confirmed. So that cat that is removed from the area will be listed as a depredation not as a sport hunt. Jeff is right about tha. Also I have to question all these calves that are supposidly killed by lions? Just how many calves are killed each year and how many are actually confirmed lion kills? In my experience with depredations we hardly ever have a calf killed by lions. Bear, wolves and coyotes are more damaging to cattle than lions. Lions will usually go for sheep as an easy prey. Also most ranchers do not report the loss till it is way after the fact and birds and coyotes have come in and cleaned it up so it cannot be confirmed as to what killed it. I agree with Jeff houndsmen will fill a quota faster than the amount of depredation lions. Maybe houndmen in that area should be more selective of what gets harvested. Sounds to me that is where your issue truely is.

[realdog]

hey there big horn posse you guys up in wyoming get compensated for lion and bear kills? We dont here in NM matter fact when a wolf kills a calf we have about a 50% chance we wont get reimbursed and thats with a confirmed report. and that is on personal experience, and niebours . what i posted above is what is happening they dont turn it in to the game and fish unless its out of season but durring early calving season when ranchers are most concerned about calf crops and one sees a lion or fresh lion sign it is during season and it is easier to call the usda hunter and have him take care of it the way i posted it above . I totaly agree with you on the calf killer list you wrote . Here were i live it is coyotes then wolves and when there get to be more wolves they will be first on the list then pobably bears on dry years then lions . When it is a lion it is usally a young tom that has just been weaned by his mother or it will be a hungry female with kittens trying to keep them fed. hardly ever found many lion calf kills on me just during calving season and only a few times. You know there are some places i know of around globe and young az were lion can destroy those guys entire calf crop though and that is a known fact by even the game and fish will tell you that over there.That would be something great if they had such great compensation program here in NM as it sounds like you have in wyoming on all depredating predetors. And for jeff the last comment on your last post concerns me us houndsman need to stick together to keep hunting going on for future generations not be against each other i dont know how long you lived here in NM or hunted hounds? however we already have the antis already trying to take all the hunting seasons they can from us and close it all down we should ban together to keep the sport going and if read my posts above carefuly its easy to see i am not the kind of person for killin eveything you tree.We have to stick together . Jeff i am in total agreement with you on the females not being harvested if there was more resident females that dont have as large home ranges as the toms there would more lions for the guys that have a lot trouble catchin a lion to begin with ,then more people would be happy and satisfied,cause even if they couldnt kill it they could put it up a tree and see it.

[Big Horn Posse]

Realdog, are your lions classified as trophy game, big game, or predators? Do you have to draw tags, are they over the counter, or do you even need a tag? Here lions and bears are classified as trophy game and any trophy game classified animal that causes damage the damage is investigated and if it is confirmed as a lion or bear then compinsation is paid. Same with big game. Deer that cause damage to crops like corn will also be compinsated. Animals listed as preadtors here, coyotes, raccoons. ect there is no compinsation and you do not need a tag nor is there a season for harvesting them. Wolves have been classified as protected and any livestock damage that has been a confirmed result of wolves is not compinsated by G&F but USFWS. This should be changing shortly as our wolf plan has been approved. Once this goes in effect any areas bordering Yellowstone will classify wolves as trophy game and they will have tags to hunt wolves in these areas. All other areas wolves will be classified as predators and no season or tag will be needed to harvest them. Those areas where they will be classified as trophy game all damage will have to be confirmed before compinsation by G&F will be given. All areas where they will be predators will not be compinsated by G&F and ranchers will contact county trappers to deal with the wolves the same as they have been with coyotes.

[realdog]

wow big horn that is a totaly cool program you have we need to trade programs for awhile lol . Here the lion is listed as big game you buy the licsense after you pass the online sex test then there is a quota in each zone ounce quotas are filled seasons are closed in the zones and they are big zones so you would have to drive along way to hunt another zone. and like jeff said it is devided by female as well as tom totals and the Zones are usally closed by female harvests . for example a zone will be sort of like 20 toms and 6 females . and usually females # closes the zone . thats the problem if they make you take a sex test before you can buy a licsense why not just protect the females and alow you to hunt the entire season for the tom quota. then it satifys everyones needs and intrests.

[Big Horn Posse]

Realdog, the reason that idea won't work as far as not allowing no females to be harvested is because even though they have to take a test on identifying the sex of cats before a tag is issued is people still make mistakes. I do not know of any state that will not allow females to be harvested. It is a good thing you still have a female mortality quota in NM. This actually will help your population in the long run. I am guessing the reason your female mortality is getting filled early is due to people that don't care what they harvest or think they need to harvest every cat they tree. Lot of new young gun go houndsmen think this way and are not educated in management and conservation. They will either eventually learn the errors of their ways or eventually get out of hounds cause the thrill has passed. Outfitters can also close a quota fast as SOME will try to get as many hunters filled as they can and not care what their client gets as long as that tag is filled. The best thing you can do to help keep your area open longer is to educate the hound guys in your are on these issues. I personally wish they would do away with the unlimited quota they have in my area here and put a quota back. I have been driving to other areas that have a quota to go hunt due to the lack of lions in my area compared to it was when it had a reasonable quota. I pesonally will not harvest any lions I tree unless it is a depredation lion which I am contracted to do. Like I said the best way to get the female mortality quota from not being filled is to educate the hunters. I wish you luck with that.

[realdog]

everything you posted is absolutly correct in that last one you hit the nail pretty much square on the head there. Its hard to believe everyone doesnt think the same way we do and have the same set of ethics as we do but this is the truth with the things you posted there. as long as we always remember all hound men dont go in the same category box. and try to stick together despite there differenses to keep the sport going.

[Ed Moore]

Save our tax dollars & the gov. hunters will go away!

[Mr.pacojack]

Save our tax dollars & the gov. hunters will go away!

Since the Government Hunter jobs are funded by the livstock producers, I don't think this will happen.

[Big Mike]

Dep lions or bears shouldn't count against a quota. Thats like counting roadkill deer against the deer hunters! Any state that thinks they can manage there population down to a single animal is fooling themselves. They should be managed over multiple years and by what actually is happening in the field. Some zones need female quota some don't. I think all of us have killed females over are dogs and its not always bad thing. I think as long as hes leaves more than they are harvesting they are doing right by me