gettin a hound to not backtrack

[perky]

hey me and my buddy were coon huntin the other night and we saw a cougar cross the road. our dogs got really excited and struck hard we turned em down but my dog diesal took the back track. and since it was so hot he wouldn't come when i told him to come back he was on the move. he back tracked for a mile and a half till we got him. its his 2nd race ever period. he opened up the whole way. he trailed fast but i just need to know what i should do to get him going on the right end of the track. any tips fer fixin this?

[Mike Leonard]

Hounds will run the back trail on cougar more than any other tree game. I assume this was on bare ground with no snow cover but it sounds as if trailing conditions were very good. I am not sure and I have consulted with many experienced lion hunters over the years as to the reason hounds are prone to take the back track of a lion more than any other game. Some have said it may be due to the shape of the lion's foot being rather round and with know toenails exposed to disturb the enzymes of the ground or earth at the front part of the track. Sounds possiblem but on a very fresh lion trail like the one you saw in person there has to be some airborne scent molecules still present so why wouldn't the hound naturally swing in the direction of the strongest scent and drive the track that way? Not sure but I do know that lions leave a type of scent that is quite different in it's characterisitics from say a coon or a bear. It seems to be a low hanging somewhat heavy scent that does not disperse quickly into the air above. Now a jumped lion that has been frightened many times will leave a different type of vapor trail and even a hound with a bad cold and a plugged up nose can usually follow that.

My advice is to not worry too much about your dog he seems to be trail minded and he was really moving the track so just make every attempt to find the general direction of the lion's travel before you cut him lose the next time and walk him a ways on the track if you must.

I was visiting with a professional lion hunter the other day who has been trailing a number of GPS collared lions in an area where there is no snow and fairly difficult to even see a track on the ground. He said that his hounds who I might add are among the best in the country I am told will take the back track away from where the GPS says the lion is approximatly 50% of the time. So it really pays to get down and try to find that track before you let old Rover trail that lion backwards all day becasue you don't put many in the tree that way..



Good Luck!

[mondomuttruner]

Perky, just curious, what direction was the air moving at the time. Seen a lot of dogs take the back track because the wind was coming from that direction.

[outlaw13]

I was thinking about the wind also. I have seen more than once while out bear hunting and a bear runs across the road when your not expecting it and guys will get excited and dump the box and sure as shit 1 or 2 dogs will go the wrong way, i have even seen times that all of the dogs go backwards. My advice would also be to not get excited and take your time, show the dog what way to go, lead him if you have to but usually it only takes pointing the dog in the right direction.

[Huntintony]

Walking a dog out is the answer usually but when they get away from ya and start running it backwards and you can't get them to come back, I will use my Tri Tronics! They learn real quick to come back, then I encourage them to go the right way. I only have to tone them now, because they were trained to know what the tone button means. He's young, so working on obedience is huge right now.

Good hunting!

[super white hunter]

well said Mike

[valleyhound]

The dog is young give it time. a dog with no experience doesn't know which way to go especially on a hot track like that. the scent is so strong in both directions a young dog will go either direction. and as long as he still has the scent he is going to keep going that direction. it is your job to teach them the right way to go. even an old dog can run backwards on a smoking hot track. but as long as the old dog is trained to go the right way they usually wont go more than 100 yds the wrong way then they will come back. best thing with a smoking hot track is to start 1 dog and make sure it goes the right way before dumping the rest. puts the odds in your favor. teach that young dog to trail the right direction.

[dwalton]

The basics were not taught to the dog before he went to the woods. He should come when called. If he does not he should come on the buzz. If not he should be shock. If you don't have a way to shock you will have a hard time training him. IT is hard for most dogs to go the right way. When you saw the animal or track it is up to the hunter to determine which way the dogs are going. The dogs hunt with you not you with the dogs. When you realize this concept your hunting will improve. You are the brains. Dewey

[Dale T]

Dewey

I would have a real hard time shocking a dog running a good track even if it was going backwards. and would exspect to wreck the dog from running a lion again.

[dwalton]

You would be shocking the dog for not coming when you call it not for running the lion. If it turned around and you treed the lion would not that be a better reward. I shock my dogs on the right end of a bobcat if they are barking off track or barking going to the dogs. You would be surprised as to how much you can fine tune a dog. How good are willing to have it. You can train them as much as you want or as little. I enjoy hunting with a well trained dog and treeing game to much, them letting them do as they please. I don't care if that dog is on a jumped cat if I call it it had better come. We under estimate the ability for the dog to learn or our ability to train them or maybe not? Dewey

[outlaw13]

Dewey i completely agree with you about shocking a young dog that you know is barking off track or even a young dog that you turn in to a race and is babbling its head off instead of shutting up hualing butt. I do this when needed and have never ruined a dog or had a dog quit a race.

[Dale T]

You would be shocking the dog for not coming when you call it not for running the lion.

Dewey

Your dogs and your ability with them is well known and I can't dispute the results you get with them, and have nothing but respect for that!

but I've seen a lot of dog wrecked with the shock collars because the man at the switch wasn't sure what they were doing and hit the button thinking that it was the quick fix to there problem, and truly knowing what a dog is going at all times is next to impossible for most of us.

[dwalton]

I agree with you. Most people do not know what there dogs are doing and what they are doing with them and yes there has been a lot of dogs ruined by abuse with a shocking unit. Maybe with the knowledge that is out there it is time for them to learn. Dewey

[twist]

Any dog that is running a back track needs to be corrected or your problem will just escalade, this is just as bad as trashing or false treeing it can not be allowed. Yes a dog can be ruined with a shock collar but it will take more than a few buzzes to do it and if the dog has any manners taught to it that is all it should take. Andy

[raxntrax]

You should have taken the time to make sure he was pointed in the right direction. I have found that the dogs will react to the excitement of my body language and do some real dumb stuff if I just drop the tailgate and let them scatter like a fart in a whirlwind. All of the comments about shocking them are 110% correct. You can teach them some amazing things or you can RUIN a dog real fast. I feel that the reason dogs get burned out on shock collars is that the owners are pushing the button when they are mad and not thinking clearly. This usually ends up with the collar turned up as HI as it can go. That will fry a dogs ability sort out all of the stimulating factors that are happening at the same time. They are hearing other dogs barking, smelling a hot track, their genetics doing what they are designed to do and they are gassed up and race ready. Then the HI voltage hits from the pissed off handler. Start low with the shock collar and work up to a setting that gets results. Every dog is different. Some of the tuffest, grittiest dogs out there can only handle a # 1 or 2. Sound like your dog has what it takes to make a good dog. Just take the time to work with him at home and point him in the right direction and you will have many enjoyable years behind him. GOOD LUCK