Montana dry grounding (bobcat)

twist · Post by **twist** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:19 pm

I want to hear everyones stories and experiances of striking and catch bobcats consistantly on bare groung here in the Big Sky Country. Come on guys I know there are a few of you out there. You have talked to me about it. Tell me how you do it and where as always willing to listen. Andy

kehrer10 · Post by **kehrer10** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:42 pm

I can't catch em when there is fresh snow, so I'm out!

Ringo · Post by **Ringo** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:16 am

As of last winter I didnt even think rigging bobcat or lion was possible . The hound hunters I have known and watched growing up have never done it, so I have never even thought about it till now. I worked my dogs alittle on rigging this summer and fall. This december with snow conditions the way they were I rigged quite a bit. I did strike two different bobcats off the rig. One turned out to be a really good race, dogs tree in some really thick crap but the bobcat burned them. They did strike a female with two kittens (lions) that was there first start to finish from the truck cats for them. They are pretty green on the bobcats but Iam excited to try more of this striking from the rig stuff.

shoot4fur · Post by **shoot4fur** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:38 am

so on this topic, I am wondering about heading out in the morning, and there is not much snow to speak of but it did rain and the ground is wet. should this not be esier than fronzen ground. I can cut tracks in the mud so its not like I wont know what they are after. And the ground is not frozen. what are some thoughts on this. not to get off track of topic though..

twist · Post by **twist** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:37 am

shoot4fur, let me know how your day goes. I think you will have a story to tell that is similar to what I have learned over the years. Andy

coastrangecathunting · Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:45 am

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cobalt · Post by **cobalt** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:58 pm

My opinion on this is that in order to have dogs that do well in arid conditions, they need to be subjected to those conditions regularly to become more adept at it. There are many places in the west that have similar conditions as the one you live in I think (E. Oregon, Nevada, S. Idaho, etc.) and there are dogs that catch cats there on the dry. I would say if you have timber in the country you hunt, it is very possible to run and catch a percentage of the cats you start, but maybe not as easy as with snow. One big difference in running cats out of the snow is that the dogs must start the track without any help from the hunter and it might take longer to find a track because you can't race around the mtns looking for a track like you can with good snow.
I think there are several people out there with dogs that are able to successfully run cats in your country and similar country, but they might be reluctant to step forward because they don't want to have to defend themselves against the nay sayers. It won't benefit them in any way to tell you their dogs are better than yours and winning an arguement on the internet even if your right, is futile and exhausting.
There is a big reason why there are a lot of top bobcat hunters in Oregon. It's because everything except coons and foxes have been illegal to hunt for the past 18 years and in that time houndmen have gravitated to dogs that can work cats whereever they hunt on good days and bad. If Mt. was to lose their lion hunting I'd bet you dollars to dognuts the quality af varmint dogs would elevate exponentially over years, esp. bobcat dogs.
I'm not saying you don't have good dogs or you're a bad trainer. And I'm not saying I have dogs that are going to go up there and pop a bunch of cats up. What I'm trying to say is, If you want your dogs to hunt good in 2 ft. of snow, then work them in 5ft. of snow. If you want them to do good in the dry, then work them during the driest times. This is how you find out if the dogs you have can do it.
BUT, maybe I'm delusional and it is impossible to run and catch bobcats somewhat consistantly with any kind of dog on the dry up there where you live. I have never been there to try it. In any case, good luck with your weather next year.

Unreal_tk · Post by **Unreal_tk** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:42 pm

cobalt wrote:My opinion on this is that in order to have dogs that do well in arid conditions, they need to be subjected to those conditions regularly to become more adept at it. There are many places in the west that have similar conditions as the one you live in I think (E. Oregon, Nevada, S. Idaho, etc.) and there are dogs that catch cats there on the dry. I would say if you have timber in the country you hunt, it is very possible to run and catch a percentage of the cats you start, but maybe not as easy as with snow. One big difference in running cats out of the snow is that the dogs must start the track without any help from the hunter and it might take longer to find a track because you can't race around the mtns looking for a track like you can with good snow.
I think there are several people out there with dogs that are able to successfully run cats in your country and similar country, but they might be reluctant to step forward because they don't want to have to defend themselves against the nay sayers. It won't benefit them in any way to tell you their dogs are better than yours and winning an arguement on the internet even if your right, is futile and exhausting.
There is a big reason why there are a lot of top bobcat hunters in Oregon. It's because everything except coons and foxes have been illegal to hunt for the past 18 years and in that time houndmen have gravitated to dogs that can work cats whereever they hunt on good days and bad. If Mt. was to lose their lion hunting I'd bet you dollars to dognuts the quality af varmint dogs would elevate exponentially over years, esp. bobcat dogs.
I'm not saying you don't have good dogs or you're a bad trainer. And I'm not saying I have dogs that are going to go up there and pop a bunch of cats up. What I'm trying to say is, If you want your dogs to hunt good in 2 ft. of snow, then work them in 5ft. of snow. If you want them to do good in the dry, then work them during the driest times. This is how you find out if the dogs you have can do it.
BUT, maybe I'm delusional and it is impossible to run and catch bobcats somewhat consistantly with any kind of dog on the dry up there where you live. I have never been there to try it. In any case, good luck with your weather next year.

Well put as always.

catdogs · Post by **catdogs** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:10 pm

I'm sure there is a lot of truth to what Cobalt said, you want bare ground bobcat dogs, hunt bare ground for bobcats. In Montana, at least in the Western part, there is not much dry ground bobcat hunting to do and maybe only a month of bare ground because of they way our season runs. I don't know what Oregons season is, but I think they have a lot more bobcats than we do here and also more humidity and underbrush, which all makes for more catches. I think any good lion dogs can catch most bobcats in the snow, about half on bare ground and a few on dry ground. We mostly cast and road dogs, once the snow leaves. You never know what you start this time of year.

If there are guys in Montana that can rig bobcats on dry ground and consistantly catch them, I'd sure like to see it. Not saying it can't be done, I know better than that, I'm just saying I would like to see it.

twist · Post by **twist** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:56 pm

Yes in the far western part of the state in some areas it may be done with some success but in this part is another story. Yes a person can get lucky every so often but wont happen on consistant basis. I have had guys say it can be done and they have done it but are never willing to back thier stories when it come time to go. Right now is a perfect time for anyone to show me it can be done I would be the first to shake your hand and say I was wrong. From central Montana to the eastern edge of the state is a whole nother world compared to the western part of the state, no under growth what so ever. I have some fairly good bobcat country I hunt and would invite anyone to come rig and dry ground and show me it can be done here on a consistant basis. I am not trying to start a bickering match just would like to SEE it done rather than hear someone SAY it can be done. Just to clear up what I am talking about is hunting from a given road and having the dogs strike and run the track not free casting grubing the ridges and canyon with your dog until you get a hot, jumped race going. Andy

cobalt · Post by **cobalt** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:18 pm

catdogs- I strongly disagree with the statement, "any good lion dogs can catch most bobcats in the snow". Like I said I haven't been there and maybe the bobcats are different there, but where I have hunted bobcat (southern Id., No. Nevada, E. Oregon, SW Oregon, Oregon coast, and N. Ca.), the hardest part of ANY bobcat race is the jump and tree and that is the easiest part of a lion race with possible exceptions.

Twist- If you have a high success rate with catching cats by roading or freecasting them into catty areas when the conditions are non-snowy then why don't you do that?? It's called adjusting to the conditions. It is a great way to hunt, granted you better have your dogs tuned in and knowing what they're looking for.
I know where you were headed to from your initial post. "COME HERE AND SHOW ME". Well I know you are correct in your assumptions until someone goes up there and does it. You don't want validation from anyone because the only person whose opinion that counts is your own, but because you've never seen it, doesn't mean it can't be done. It doesn't mean you're wrong by any means, but it sets you up for a lesson in humility because what your saying is that if your dogs can't do it, no ones can. My guess is someones dog can.

catdogs · Post by **catdogs** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:07 pm

the hardest part of ANY bobcat race is the jump and tree and that is the easiest part of a lion race with possible exceptions.

Not arguing that, I agree. I still think it's not so hard that a good lion dog can't figure it out most of the time. Are you saying I have good bobcat dogs and REALLY good lion dogs??? :lol:

Kidding of course.

Tim Pittman · Post by **Tim Pittman** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:10 pm

For the biggest share of my income these days[in the past also]I haul with a hot shot rig[mostly pipe,some steel,mostly back country/woods delivery locations].I've been to most states several times in the last 14 years---my question to the Montana guys,is this.Montana is no drier than,Arz.,Texas,parts of Calif.,Nv.,eastern Or.,utah,NM,parts of Id,Iknow I'll miss a few,but my point is this---if they can do it in those places[there are limited numbers of hunters who do]than what makes THE BIG SKY country so different??
Andy,I'm not having a match with you or disrespecting you at all here,but what your asking and saying is no different than what was said here40-50 years ago and still presently in some states by folks about rigging Bear,Lion,and bobcat.It's kinda like I've said before"Just because I can't throw a fastball at 100mph,it doesn't mean it can't be done",I'm ashamed to say it but my buddys wife throws 98mph and I can't match her consistantly,doesn't mean she's stronger than me,but it sure as heck means she has perfected her technique above and beyond what I was ever capable of doing,mostly due to my own limitations on myself.It's kinda like south central and south east Oregon guys don't typically go and catch 3-7 cat in any condition over their in a weekend,but I know a guy from here that does it on the low side of those numbers regulary and a another young guy here,down there last year and treed/caught/harvested 7 cats in a 15hour day for him and his son.That'll raise most guys eyebrows[I DID]but proof was in the pudding,I was just impressed the dogs were that tough[HIM TOO],have I done this?No,but I'm not going to think it's impossible--otherwise it will be.

dwalton · Post by **dwalton** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:07 pm

Guys any thing can be done. This is my opinion and nothing else it holds a lot of merit with me. Cats can be caught there. I have never hunted Montana but most of the rest of the west. To me most lion dogs are next to worthless for cats that not saying you can not catch a cat or several cats but they are not cat dogs. Until you have hunted with strait bobcat dogs that tree 1 t0 2 hundred cats a year you dog not even have a clue as to what a cat dog can do. Dewey

coastcathunter · Post by **coastcathunter** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:39 pm

this what i have observed.yes it can and does get done. there is just as many cats in montana as there is in oregon. i am not going to drive to your house to show you twist .for one i am not a montana resident for two i don't really care one way or the other what you or anyone else thinks. i don't mean to sound like an ass hole but i don't hunt to prove anything to anyone i do it for myself. so if you believe it great if you don't believe it can be done thats great too.i know two young cat hunters from montana and they both are starting to box their dogs and the one guy has a hell of a nice young dog so maybe some day you will see it happen when that style of hunting catches on up there. the biggest problem i see is it is usually to cold to box a dog during cat season.

Montana dry grounding (bobcat)

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