Cat populations

[dwalton]

I may should have out this in the cage but we start it here. This is only my opinion based on 46 years of cat hunting and about 12 years of trapping and hunting combined.I was paid to work on catching bobcats on a study in the early '80's. During that time I had the privilege working with Dale Towell and Charles Meslow. Threw the years Charles send me all the study reports on bear, lion and bobcat that he came across. Three of my hunting buddies are biologist which have worked hard on making a difference for wildlife and the environment in which it lives. This back ground on the statements that I am going to make. The cat population may be down but it is stable for the habitat that it lives in. There are plenty of areas that recoup the places that the cats may get hunted or trapped down. Most of the prime habitat is behind lock gates that we can not access. Look at the areas that we hunt, then look at the areas next to it that we do not hunt. There is far more ground out that for one reason or another we don't access. It will make no difference in the cat population to limit the take of cats in western Oregon. It will make no difference in your ability to catch cats by limiting the number of cats one can take. Buddy Yes I may stir the pot and you can band me from here because you do not agree with me and think I have a huge ego and not humble enough but a least I hope I make people think and will find no one that has more respect for the bobcat as a animal than I do. The last statements should not be here but they need to come out because of what is going on behind the scenes from Buddy with Tim and myself. Dewey

[George Streepy]

Dewey,

You are 100% right, this probably will end up in the cage, but Buddy probably won't be the one that puts it there.

As far as cat #'s in an area, I once had a WA biologist tell me that if you kill a cat, almost as fast as you can drive home, another one starts moving into the area. That is the way it is. I have hunted areas and left the cats to run again, always being able find one to chase. When hunters with a reputation to kill everything they tree moved in it surely did become harder to find a cat. How much effect that has on the bobcat population in a whole, I have no idea. As you mentioned, there are a lot of areas where they are protected by geographical limitations or property closures.

In most years I left a majority of the cats I treed. Not just to keep the #'s up but also because most years a western bobcat isn't worth my time. This could be an interesting topic and I would love to hear everyone's opinion. Hopefully we can hold the jabs back and keep everything respectful.

[Unreal_tk]

My buddy and myself both have been pondering this in our areas. I am not to concerned about most of my spots but where trappers are at they clean out a draw each year. Next year will be the test for one drainage because there was no cats left but one big tom by the end of the season between trappers, houndmen. There is a trapper here who's been trapping the same lines for close to 50 years his input is much like Georges, that is to say that he traps the same every year and never fully traps it out.

[slowandeasy]

dewy, i would not let anything that other people say bother ya. a real dog man reads through all the bs, and figures people out as fast as they do his or her's dogs. like the topic for puppy names, does anyone that has a clue think that this was really about names . point being made is people like you, tim pittman, dog boy, catdog 360, al, and many others on the site have things to offer. and all though we should never lose sight of the fact that we never stop learning. we surely don't need anyones approval or blessings for acomplishments made through the years. take care

[dwalton]

Thanks Slowandeasy. I have yet to find someone that I could not learn from. Thanks again

[Warner5]

Hounds hunters will be blamed for the decline in cat population. Whether its real or not. But to truly affect the population, there would need to be a change in the Habitat. Fella's we will all need to stand together at some point. Remember, our diversity make's us stronger as a group. But it can also seperate us, IF WE LET IT. Making us weaker as a group. Everyone settle your differences, once done try not to hold a grudge. Call it good practice for dealing with the one's trying to take our Heritage . Just a thought. But really none of my business. All try to have a nice day. John.

[YotaDawger]

Take it to the Thunder dome ...

[al baldwin]

John I don,t have any personal differences, my comment was as much out of respect for Dewey & his dogs as concern for cat populations & if taken as more my regerts. But in the sixties my mentor felt bobcat could not be over harvested but has sure changed his mind. There will always be bobcat, but the population here is sure not what it was in the sixties. Dewey you are probley correct, if hunters don,t harvest government will pay to have them harvested. Sure it would be nice if weekend hunters had a few more to enjoy. Plus thought maybe if hunters show an interest to preserve, might keep the enemies off our backs a little longer. May not be in my time but suspect it/s coming Thanks to all Al Baldwin

[Tim Pittman]

I tried this theory on cats moving into an area after harvesting a tom.This year I hunted close to home most of the season.I left the females in one particular area,the one Treed 8 times and the other 4-5 all on different days as I don't jump them out.I harvested 8 nice mature tom's out of this small area one being the biggest cat I personally have caught that weighed 31 1/2 pounds.I thought well no more big ones this season,2 days later in the same crossing caught another 27#,this got my attention.I believe the toms would come into those females from the surrounding locked up country that was being logged at the time,it was taking an average of 3-5 days for another nice tom to move in as long as the females were there.Toward the end of season A couple guys harvested the females and took considerably longer for cats to fill in the country.Now I'm starting notice as other habitat is getting right,they're starting to frequent that more.After doing some walk hunting this season in some of the bigger back drainages with no roads,surrounded by locked up country I noticed there were lots of cats in there until the the rut started and they spread out.Another place I hunted this year were guys do not harvest cats,I believe the population has become sterile,and would flurish if some of the non reproductive females and big toms were taken.According to local biologist and some who've been part of their study's this would allow higher kitten survival.The same biologist that is very much on the conservative side quoted this year saying that our bobcat population was very high compared to what we have for habitat,and if we lower harvest numbers,we as houndsmen would see negative results.Again I say this guy is very conservative when it comes to harvesting anything.My perosnal feelings on this is each individual has to decide for thereself where I'm basing my facts on--my own experiences or that of many other on a whole,or maybe 1 of both along with the data that has been collected by science.This another good thread,see ya for now.

[mondomuttruner]

Here in central Wisc., about 17 years ago, there wasn't a cat track to be seen. I did a lot of coyote hunting with a group so we covered a lot of roads checking for tracks. One day I found a track that I had no idea what it was, turns out it was a cat track, first one anybody saw around here. Soon after we started hunting them and every year it seems the more we got the more there would be the next year. I'm a firm believer in by shooting the big toms, you are saving a lot of kittens. At that time there was only a few hunters hunting them, now it's a different story, there's a lot of cat hunters here. We still have cats around but not there was a few years ago. Another thing a guy can't overlook is the rabbit population, there are few to no rabbits around. Is it a cycle? I don't know. I do know that there are more hawks and owls than ever before. I'm sure there are many different things that effect the cat population.

[Dads dogboy]

Well Folks, another Great Thread is underway!

I am looking foreword to hearing from South Texan about this as he is right in the Heart of What the Biologist say is the “Highest” density of Bobcat in the WORLD. How and Why does the Population fluctuate where he lives.

Also I hope to hear from the North East…Second Nature, Spruce Mountain, Jason Waterhouse and hopefully Mr. Pete Richardson (I really think that he will have the best grasp as to fluctuations due to his Other Hound interests).

Poon, Rod Vinson, and Vacathunter tell us what you see as to numbers and what causes this.

For us here in AR, and across the areas we hunt there are only TWO factors that impact the numbers of Bobcat.

1st. and this is a very localized issue in the overall issue….this is having an area “Clear Cut”. While this can cause a disruption of the population Short Term (the Cat move out for a while); long term this just enhances the Bobcat habitat.

2nd. FEED….this is the MAIN factor in the Bobcat Population. If the Rabbit Cycle (reliably reported to be 7 years from start of one to start of the next) is at its peak, we see more Cat, more young Cat, and more older Cat with poor Teeth.

Now one of the places that we hunt in Florida used to have a bunch of the Georgia Bobcat/Fox Hunters come in two or three times a year. These fellows Hunted hard with darn nice Hounds. They would all put in on a Race, thus sometimes having as many as 50 Hounds after a Cat. They would sweep an area hard. Cat would be hard to find for a while after one of their Safaris, yet let a couple of Months go by and you could strike a Cat in the usual places. The Cat would “Move In” from the surrounding areas that these fellows could not hunt.

Some one in an above Post mentioned removing the Big TOMS. We have sure seen this help. In two of the Clubs we Hunt, very few Bobcat had been taken in the preceding 40 years. In the first two years that we hunted these Clubs we caught the most Sows weighing over 20#s that Dad has ever caught. We also caught an inordinate amount of Aged Toms (Body condition good…teeth Poor). We caught a higher average of Toms over 25#s than normal, including many over 30 and the Largest Tom that Dad has caught to date 38 ½#.

What we did not catch was 2/3 grown or very Young Cat. While we try to leave Sows, especially in the Spring, we never caught a Lactating or Heavy Bred Sow in the 1st two springs we hunted these Clubs.

Now, after 6 years of hunting these two Clubs, the Cat population has remained about the same, yet the demographics have changed. We have started catching younger Cat, and have even seen where a Sow walked a sandy road with at least one Kitten in tow.

Mr. Harold likes to tell the story of the Sow Cat who lived at an intersection of three roads. He always left her, and over the years caught more than a few Toms struck at this intersection when they were “Looking For Love”. Then a Deer hunter killed the Sow and that was the end of the Toms till another Sow moved in.

Now let the number of Rabbits fall due to the Cycle and Cat will get HARD to find in a whole Region for an extended period of time. So I/WE feel that the Rabbit Cycle rather than Hunting Pressure has the larger impact on the Bobcat populations.

Just what we have found and think!

[dwalton]

C John Clay It has been a good post. Two things I seen in your post that caught my eye. When I worked the study with collared cats when we caught one and that was collared it moved to the far end of its territory for a while away from where we handled it. The next thing you are saying the habitat and the rodent populations {rabbit] control the predators not the predators controlling the rodent population. Seems like I read something about that in one of the studies. Thanks for your post. I hope you know I am not stirring the pot with you I just wanted to make that point clear. Thanks Dewey

[mark]

I dont know the methods used other places but in western oregon when we are done logging the unit is machine piled and those piles are burnt in the fall. Then they are sprayed by helicopter to kill all vegetation and then the seedlings are planted. For 2-4 years nothing grows except the small fir trees. At 4 years those little trees really take off and grow. Any of the small underbrush that stats to grow is choked out by the fir trees in the next few years, except the sticker briars for a few more years. I think that does away with the habitat that small game need to survive. So when we have a low cycle on rabbits and other small game i think this just hinders the rebound further. I do know that i dont see the rabbits i have in years past. JMO

[dwalton]

JMO: I think you are 100% right the mono culture that timber companies out here do raising dougfir is the worst thing that can happen to our wildlife deer, elk, rodents, bobcats and salmon. With the no clear cut the government does on timber ground out here is just as bad. We { THEY] saved the trees on public property but we will lose our wild life. Dewey

[twist]

I have hunted the same areas for the past 30 yrs I still live on the creek I was born on and the cat population goes up and down with the rabbit population it has always held its own but when there is a high number of rabbits the cats produce bigger litters. Also when furs are high as they have been the past few years you get everyone out catching them (kittens, females) and this takes a big toll on the population. But over all it has held here enough where you can always seem to have a good race. Andy