strikes you can't start....

[catdogs]

Do you guys get many strikes you can't start (I do). Do you do any correcting on dogs that strike a trail they can't start or do you just read the strike to determine if it is worth putting down on or not? Also, do you find that your dogs typically go the right way when put down a strike? thanks

[coastrangecathunting]

i have 2 dogs that will strike tracks off the rig they cant start. it is frustrating but i just deal with it . that is why i leave my dogs loose on the box . i let decide if they think they can run it . they will still jump off on tracks they cant get started sometimes but i have learned to just live with it jc

[Huntintony]

Ditto to JC! Other than I don't leave them loose on the rig. I like to confirm a track before I put my dogs down. Helps to make sure they are running it the right way.

[cobalt]

I think over striking is a common occurance in good natural rigging dogs. I would much rather own dogs that over strike than under. At least I know the game was there at some point and I will mark that spot. Correcting this can be tricky, but I think the key is watching the dog on the ground and seeing if he is hunting for a track or just running over to a piss post. It can be very frustrating because dogs will take advantage of the situation and end up striking stuff that shouldn't be messed with if left without being dealt with. If I'm really on top of it and having issues with it, I will let a dog down and if he/she isn't hunting like it's looking for a track then I will get verbally rough with the dog to make them think I know exactly what their doing and shoo them back on the box. Some tracks might take 20 minutes to start off the rig. Sometimes the dog is striking where a cat came in the road and the dog can't smell it good, but if you road them slowly for a couple hundred yards, they might find where it left. Variables like this need to be considered. I think it is a rarity that a dog will start a track backwards off the rig unless there's snow on the ground and if they do, they should turn it around in short order. I found it was helpful to practice rigging when there was good snow to figure a dog out as I could see what was going on and remember their body language for when I was hunting dry or frozen conditions. Once you have 1 dog figured out, it becomes much easier to make more rig dogs in a shorter amount of time because you have a measuring stick, but because you have a dog you can count on doesn't mean that the next dog should get disciplined because he doesn't act exactly like the lead striker. Some dogs are colder off the box than on the ground. I think at first it is always best to put your coldest nosed and brokest dog down first even if that dog doesn't rig the track. Once a few cats are treed from rig strikes it will get easier for the dog and the hunter. Making that first solid rig dog is the biggest hurdle in my opinion. There's a lot more to it, but these are a few of my thoughts.

[al baldwin]

J C I too get strikes the dogs can/t trail. Most every cat hunter I/ve hunted with get those. But as you know some times dogs that learn to search out wide can produce some cat races off of those. Plus when I used to hunt strange ground knew where the cats used for later hunts. With some of my old hounds I used to just let them them road thru areas where cats used heavy. Found they would just nose cat scent on the brush that they would open on if in the box. I have found that dogs strikeing from the box ( when dumping the box) were more apt to take a track backwards for a ways, before turning the track around. Lots of time in the areas I/ve hunted you are at the mercy of the hounds to determine the correct end, And some are better than others at turning faster, When my old skinner turned a track I turned the others, & he was seldom wrong. J C YOU AND WARNER 5 are the real cat hunters of this area I AM JUST AN OLD WASH UP PLEASURE HUNTER, & BETTER AT TALKING ABOUT HUNTS & DOGS I USED TO OWN. Some of those old scents have been the most difficult to determine the correct end & have noticed others I/ve hunted with agree with me. Have seen track taken half mile or so backwards, put the hounds on other end, wind up jumping and catching some of those cat. Most of those happened when combining two packs, not used to being hunted togeather. Just some things I/ve experienced & if it helps any young hunters thats great. Thanks Al Baldwin

[Dads dogboy]

Catdogs, another very good thread should start from here!

As the others have said a Hunter gets lots of Strikes from the Rig that you can not do anything with!

We probably get a Bark on ¼ of the Strikes that we put down on. Then of those we get ¼ off the road. Then of these that the Hounds find where the Cat has left the road ¼ will we trail a ways.

Now that leaves us with a small number in the overall scheme of things that we will jump and run. However if the Cat is Jumped we will end over 90% of them what we call “Terminally”. The Cat is either weighed, left in a Tree, Log pile or Hole, or we catch the Hounds off of the Cat for any of several reasons.

But as another has said, just Rigging a Cat, getting out and finding it’s Track helps you “Inventory” where and what Sex of Cat you have.

Now as to correcting a Hound for “Over Rigging”, I would be very careful doing this as Rig Hounds are a Blessing that can be ruined by an overzealous person trying to Micro manage their Hounds. This does not mean to NOT Correct a Hound for Striking off Game. Cobalt describes very well how we would handle this.

You want a Hound to tell YOU that they SMELL something, then you have to translate what they are telling you into what is happening. EX:

The Hounds are Striking a Day old or older Pile of Scat. A Solid Strike with one or more Hounds opening. The Hounds due a lot of switching of Tails, go up and down the road looking, but come back and find the pile of Scat which they then EAT. The average of Jumped Cats from these strikes is small as a Cat will usually deposit the Scat shortly after he has gotten up to start Feeding or Traveling. This means that unless the Scat is too Fresh to eat, the Cat is far away and the Hounds may not find where it has left the road much less trail it.

The Hounds smell a Kick, Pissing Post, or other Communication Marker that Bobcats will make. These are to mark the Cats territory, tell the Sex status, just say Hello or any other CAT talk the Bobcats in an area may decide on. Here the entire Truck may blow up….the Hounds hit the ground barking, go right to the Marker and never trail the Cat away. Heck the Cat may have made the Marker days ago. When a Tom excretes the white viscous mucus from his anal gland it lasts a long time.

The Scenting conditions are POOR and the Hounds are telling you that they are having a hard time telling CATs from Yotes, Coons, Possums and or Deer. You can tell from the tone and style of Barking that it probably is not a Cat, just something is in the air and due to the conditions the Hound is not sure and does not want to miss a CAT. The Hounds will seem to be Striking a lot more and they are ….just not Cat. We will sometimes get out and look for a Cat Track, but generally just drive on till the Strike sounds better. This usually will turn out to be one of those nights when you do not have a Race. We have hunted Days and Nights like this and seen a Cat in the road and not be able to run it. (Yea I know we sure do Feed Sorry Hounds…most Hunters carries their Good Scenting conditions in the Dog Box)

Then there is the COLD strike that says that a Cat has been here feeding or sitting around. When put down the Hounds go to the spot that they can best smell the Cat, if he has sat there for a while, the Hounds will usually Bark. Then they start trying to find where the Cat left the road. Like Mr. Al has said Hounds who reach out may find the Cat sitting quite close. These are CAT Hounds. For us about half the time a Strike such as this will result in a Race.

Then there are the GOOD Strikes where either the Scenting conditions are perfect or the Cat just left the road. The Rig Hounds tell you very clearly that a Cat has been here and that they can do something with him. Sometimes the entire Truck will explode, sometimes all the Rig Hounds will Bark, sometimes only the Hound who caught the wind just right will Bark. But OH that Bark, it tells the Houndsman that this is the Track you have been looking for.

Now as I said above the Houndsman has to translate what the Hounds are telling him/her. We try to listen to which Hound opened 1st or the best on the Box and release that Hound 1st as it probably “Has the Wind” as to where the Cat Smell is coming from. Occasionally we will have the Rig Hounds actually SMELL the Cat if it is sitting close to the road or is feeding out in a Clear Cut. When released in these instances the Hounds will go right to the Cat rather than to where the Cat has been.

Again as far as correcting the Hounds go, reread Cobalt and the other Folks Posts as they have covered this well.

But as in so much of Hound Hunting learning how to “READ” you’re Hounds when they Bark is so very IMPORTANT, they are trying to tell you all they can, you have to learn how to Understand!

[Trueblue]

Maybe there should be another thread called "Reading Rig Dogs" in a broad sense as it applies to any type of game.Figuring out individual hounds and there rigging habits is actually a lot of fun.After a guy hunts with a dog for a few years you can really get tuned in to what your dog is communicating to you when and how he strikes.Some dogs are easy to read and others are hard.I have found that your super cold nosed rig dogs are usually the hardest to read.Often times they will blow hard on a very minimum amount of scent which makes it hard to gauge what kind of strike you are dealing with.Other dogs you can read like a book.I used to own a big old blue dog that was probably the funnest rig dog I ever had.If he would open with a half assed chop,it was a weak strike.When he did that I would get out of the truck and literally ask him if that strike was any good.If he quit barking and just looked at me,there was about a 95% chance that you weren't going to start anything from that strike.I learned over time to just get back in the truck and keep on driving.If he gave a steady chop and his attention was diverted from me when I got out of the truck then I knew it was worth putting down on because he was more interested in smelling the air currents than paying attention to me.If he let out a long screaming bawl you knew he was going to leave the truck on a dead run and knew exactly where he was going.95% of the time on these hot strikes he would climb over the rig rail in his effort to get off the rig as fast as he could.Some dogs learn to do a little me too barking on the rig and those can be harder to deal with for obvious reasons.Personally I hate that but it can be hard to avoid if your hunting multiple dogs.There is only one way to make effective rig dogs and that is by hunting them hard and giving them a chance to learn how to do it.It's a process and usually it takes about 3 or 4 years on a dog to learn what you really have or don't have.It takes more than just striking ability to make a good,efficient and enjoyable rig dog.They have to be proficient at knowing what to do once they get off the box.I have seen dogs that could strike cold with the best of them but were terrible about finding a track once you put them on the ground.Some dogs go too deep off the box and others don't go deep enough.It sure is a wonderful thing when you get one that strikes good,hunts pretty deep off the box without wasting ANY time and then gets back to the truck in a reasonable amount of time if he can't get it going.Often times those first few hours of the day are the most productive because of scent conditions and if you squander them wasting time on weak strikes and inefficient dogs then you are left with nothing but aggravation.In my estimation,rig hunting hounds is the funnest style of hunting there is.There is a reason why solid rig dogs are high dollar. Now I am no bobcat hunter,just a lowly bear hunter so these comments can probably be discounted about 75%.

[007pennpal]

Now this post is a good one. It hits home on the best part of hounding. Reading or learning to listen to the dogs. That's really where its at for me because that you makes you the houndsman not just a ride along. I'm after the bobcats but probably need more than 75% discounted. Keep it coming guys!

[s_parks]

im with jc on this i do not chain my dogs up because i get lots of strikes they cant start so they get up and down a lot but its good cuz if you have a straight bobcat rig dog you will learn where the cats cross at i most always get strikes with in 200 of the same spots. its just part of it is the way i see it im no pro far from but but i think its a good thing.JMO

[dwalton]

Good post again. It is good to see others ideas. Here is my opinion. Good rig dogs will strike tracks they can not run far more than tracks they get off the road. They will hit piss bushes, scratches and what every. I tried to break a very good cat dog from doing this once it worked well, she quit hitting anything. The key as mentioned is reading your dog. He or she will let you know when it is a good track. AS far as letting your dogs up untied I disagree with this. It is a invitation to run trash. For me the dogs hunt with me I decide what they run not them. Dewey

[George Streepy]

For the sake of conversation:

There are some posts on here where people are saying they like to confirm what the dogs struck or the hunter decides what the dogs run. My question is how are you confirming or what makes you decide what tracks the dogs run? I have never tied anything up but puppies/young dogs. If the dogs could move the track they did, if not a whistle or tap of the horn and they would come back and get on the box.

Although very limited view, I have seen Deweys dogs and know they handle well, so I will direct this mostly to Dewey. How does tying them up keep them from running trash? How are you guys verifying tracks if on west coast dry ground? Is it more of a psychological thing?

[dwalton]

If you have a bunch of dogs up there loose and they hit off game I have seen good season dogs run it when fresh and the track is hot. Like I said before I have never owned a broke dog and I am not even sure what one is. A good example is of a good old cat dog that was given to hunter that only has young dogs to help him out. In less than a year that old seasoned dog will run deer with the pups like she has been doing it her hole life. If a 8 or 9 year old dog can be taught to run trash again most dogs can be taught to do that. Something to think about those long hard smart cats that are hard to catch might have long bushes tails. Dewey

[slowandeasy]

not the dogs fault!

[coastrangecathunting]

so dewey what is the difference between walking with your dogs loose and rigging with them loose.

jc

[slowandeasy]

coastrange, sit tight pm also has a another name i think it is going on now