Lion population in Montana

[BIGBLUES]

I was just curious what everybody's opinion was on the lion population in Montana. Do you see a lot of lions or not very many? And the lions you see, what caliber? Females with kittens, sub adults, females, small toms or big toms? I am always interested in what other houndsmen find during the year and their opinions on the populations. Thanks

[Badlandcat]

Around here the pop. is way down And the mature tom pop. is almost nil. Then the stupid fish cops increase the quota by 25% with no bases besides the deer hunters are crying they can't find a fricken two point!!!
Never mind that there is a 5 week gun season and just a couple years ago you could shoot 7 does!!!! Wonder where the fricken deer went
Am I pissed? Yes I am.

[hounder]

Around here the pop. is way down And the mature tom pop. is almost nil. Then the stupid fish cops increase the quota by 25% with no bases besides the deer hunters are crying they can't find a fricken two point!!!
Never mind that there is a 5 week gun season and just a couple years ago you could shoot 7 does!!!! Wonder where the fricken deer went
Am I pissed? Yes I am.

X2

[catcrazy_406]

the cat numbers this year were not great and the quality of cats was even more pathetic. i pretty much chased the same cats all year long. only ran 3 decent toms but none that i would call "big" more females and kittens than anything. the fwp doesn't help upin all the quotas. if they got out hunted they'd figure out upin the quota is stupid and gunna destroy our hound hunting for good. region 2 is the most pathetic region in the state. some of the things they propose that the rest of the state turns them down on would make a guy sick. but thats just what i've come across during my hunting this year, maybe some of you others have had different (hopefully better) experiances! -Drew

[larry]

sad part is the way they keep raising quotas. They don't know what the lion pop is, so they have no way of properly managing them. Unfortunately the harvest objective of the total population is well over what FWP would consider acceptable for ay other species they manage. I believe that the quotas set where I hunt are harvesting at least 50% of the lion pop, AT LEAST! What other species does FWP attempt to harvest 50% of the pop anually? Elk? Hell no! Not even Wolves!!! The other sad part is the guys that just gotta kill em if they are on the quota, from what I've seen this mentality makes up the majority of houndsmen at the regional meetings, theres a paycheck under the table or insecurities and ego issues that can only be fed by dumping out more cats than the next guy, alot of these jokers around, ALOT! Every area is different, but I have seen steady declines where I like to recreate personally, and it looks like a pretty gloomy future down the road, pretty sure its only gonna get worse, and the majority of guys with a box in their truck are gonna be the ones to blame. At least around my part of the country thats whats goin on. theres quite a few hound doggers within a 50-75 mile radius and I don't think there's a one in the general vicinity that would let a legal quota cat live if it climbed, thats pathetic.

[kehrer10]

I think the 700 region may be the worst for guys killing anything that climbs a tree. A lot of females killed in that country this year. I know of one guy who killed a giant 70 lb female in the 700 area, that will help with our hunting future. Not a whole lot of cats in our country, a lot of flat ground and big territories for the cats out here. Good thing is we don't have as many houndsmen over on this side of the state either, way too much driving and not as many cats keeps everyone to the west.

[BIGBLUES]

the cat numbers this year were not great and the quality of cats was even more pathetic. i pretty much chased the same cats all year long. only ran 3 decent toms but none that i would call "big" more females and kittens than anything. the fwp doesn't help upin all the quotas. if they got out hunted they'd figure out upin the quota is stupid and gunna destroy our hound hunting for good. region 2 is the most pathetic region in the state. some of the things they propose that the rest of the state turns them down on would make a guy sick. but thats just what i've come across during my hunting this year, maybe some of you others have had different (hopefully better) experiances! -Drew

I agree with you Drew on the quality of lions this year. I have only treed 1 Tom over 150 lbs this year and 6 small toms ranging from 100-125 lbs. However I have seen more lions this year and last year than I ever have. Been treeing a lot of females with kittens and a ton of sub-adults. This year was not as good of a year as last year as far as snow goes so I think that has a lot to do with the number of lions seen. I would like to see quota system come back and to region 2 and have a quota of about 10 lions per area. Its my opinion that having a diverse harvest is better than having a nothing but big tom harvest. I have a feeling things are gonna get bad real quick when the hybrid system comes along and they have 30 lions per area to harvest. I don't believe the lions should take the wrap for what FWP and the Wolves have destroyed.

[Ringo]

We had alot of lions this year. Alot of female with sub adults and a decent amount of small toms. Out of about 28 lions we only seen about three or four toms going over that 130 mark. It seemed like a good year for training young dogs but not so great for finding big toms. I think everyone agrees that the fwp screws up about anything they try to manage.

[Kevin D]

You think it's bad now guys, wait until the SFW get's a bigger toe hold in your state. Even in their mission statement the Montana SFW claim they want more "responsible predator management." You can interpret that as meaning the same "scorched earth" lion management policy they have been successful in implementing here in Utah.

Yep, as bad as it it is now for you guys, trust me, it will get worse if the SFW folks get their way......and the sad part is, even after our lion herd has been all but wiped out, the deer herd is in worse shape than ever!

[Brent Sinclair]

This winter was the worst I have had here in Alberta in over 30 years.
I do alot of hunting close to the Montana border and see a big change in lion numbers from what I have in the past 5 years.
ALberta opened a year round season on private land for landowners to kill any cat and no limit...they impemented a boot season and no record of what was shot and wounded or lost.....trappers have snared way more lions than G&F ever know about and it is noticable....87 days in the field out of the 90 day season and I treed 4 lions and had to hunt hard to get a trophy tom...We get high winds and poor snow but it hasn't changed much in all the years I have huted here in the south west corner..

[Mike Leonard]

That kind of pressure a long period of time will finally take a toll. You guys are just starting to see it and if changes
are not made you may get to be like this area where you might drive day a week in a row on good snow and not see a lion track. Yep that's right and that is in a small section that has a 40 plus sustainable motality quota, I know foolish but it doesn't matter it can't be filled.


Some parts of Montana are still remote and I know hunters who tree 30 50 lions a year but the size sfrom small to mostly average, just training. Wolves are putting so much pressure on game in many areas that the predation gap is being over-filled and that niche that the cougar use to hold is shrinking. He is the supreme predator on his own but against ever increasing wolf packs he his kind face the peril. Not even the mighty grizzley can withstand the stength and mobility of a large hunting pack of wolves, and unless something changes hound hunting as we know it is doomed.

[BIGBLUES]

We had alot of lions this year. Alot of female with sub adults and a decent amount of small toms. Out of about 28 lions we only seen about three or four toms going over that 130 mark. It seemed like a good year for training young dogs but not so great for finding big toms. I think everyone agrees that the fwp screws up about anything they try to manage.

Where have you been hunting up there? I was hunting up there in mid December around swan, ferndale, and Hungry Horse. We found quite a few lions around that area. and some real nice toms especially by Hungry Horse around Lion Mtn and Fire fighter. Shit ton of wolves up there too. Almost lost the hounds twice. I mainly hunt the Bitterroot, Lolo creek, and Missoula area and I have noticed a boom in the lion population but I'm just not seeing the big toms anymore. Maybe I have been a day late every time on the big guys. I need a magic wand to turn those wolf tracks into lions:)

[Ringo]

Bigblues the areas you talk about are right out my front door. I hunt west of the kalispell area alot, but this season I spent alot of time in the swan, ferndale and the general tag areas. I live in creston Iam sure you have driven through on your way to the southfork. I havent hunted the southfork, middlefork or northfork alot, but yes there are plenty of wolves up this direction and thankfully I have not had any close calls with them and my dogs. About any direction you go up here you will be running with wolves. The Swan didnt impress me alot, I had a friend that had that tag and we hunted hard treeing quite a few different lions. We passed on alot of tracks only to come back and run them because we couldnt find anything with any size. The tom he ended up killing was the biggest one we seen it wieghed 135 . Not a bad lion at all but was just hoping to find something bigger.

[Ringo]

Brent do run much for lynx in the areas you hunt?

[Brent Sinclair]

We do not have a Lynx / Bobcat OR a Bear season for hounds here in Alberta, only registered trappers can hunt and kill Lynx.