Opinions on Independent Dogs

[007pennpal]

Sometimes a curse and sometimes a blessing is what comes to my mind. Was wondering what others think about this type of dog?

[huntfish8]

Sometimes a curse and sometimes a blessing is what comes to my mind.

X2

[not color blind]

You got that right.

They're either the HERO or a ZERO...

[South Texan]

To me, independence is a trait that any good dog has to have. If you don't have this in a dog, he is just standing in the road waiting for someone else to find your game after you have made a loose.

Lack of independence is what causes all your me-to (helper) dogs. A good independent dog, when he finds that track out of a loose, starts that game out of hearing of the other dogs, looking for a track out of a loose, he's going to take it and go. He don't believe he needs any help.

Now when you take a dog that has this trait and is still unbroke, it might be a little problem at first until you get him headed in the right direction. But this is a trait that I always look for in a dog.


Have you ever seen a top notch dog that wasn't independent?

Just my thoughts. Robbie

[MThound]

I'll agree with Robbie.

A reliable independent dog is hard to beat. A dog that does't rely on others for help will work out the track themselves and won't be running to every puppy bark that it hears in the woods.

If I had a choice, I would want most of my dogs independent as possible. Pack dogs are a lot easier to find.

[driftwood blue]

Independence is a mixed blessing-- one should have a hound that can and will go it alone BUT here is the big catch--- there are some of those "independent" dogs that absolutely will not go with a pack--- you spend more time hunting them sorry sob's than hunting game.. so you need balance--

you dang sure can improve the dogs with a strong pack mentality by hunting them alone enough and regular but there comes a time to get them back in the pack.. in the bygone years before tracking systems we would spend as much time looking for those"independent" dog as enjoying the hunt..

as my years advance,I will not tolerate a dog that spends more time leaving to hunt on his own when you have other hounds out..

you can hunt Game or hunt your dang dog

[007pennpal]

Independent yes, but also they need to be able to honor another dog when that dog is right. Packing up. Nobody can do everything best. Think about the people we know that think they know everything. How's that work out in the human world? I'd like to hear more from people with stories about how that dog did this or that both good and bad.

[Gary Roberson]

I agree that a dog should have independence but the competition hunter has taken "independence" too far. Many of these guys are discipilining their dog if he honors another. This is just another reason that I think the competition hunting is killing the true hunting dog.
Adios,
Gary

[South Texan]

Independence is a must in a good dog. But...that independence has to be guided in the right direction. With today's technology (tracking colors & e-collars) it is pretty easy to see what your dog is doing at all times, then corrected if he is not doing right. It boils down to the training of the dog.

When I'm hunting, the dogs are hunting with me, not me with the dogs. If I have a untrained independent dog that will not stay with me (shown on the garmin tracking system) that dog will be buzzed with the transmitter if that doesn't work he will be shocked (starting low and working up) until that dog checks in with me. Now...my dogs are trained to the e-collar before I start hunting them, so they know they are suppose to come to me when shocked.

Also, if a dog will not pack up because of independence, he will also also get buzzed or shocked for not honoring the other dogs. For me it is ok for a dog to be looking out ahead of the trailing dogs, it takes all kinds to make the pack, but if the trailing dogs jump your game, that swinging out dog better get to jumped dogs in a hurry. Again you can see what he is doing from your garmin tracking system. If I can tell from the sound of the pack that they are jumped, that swinging out dog can to, so if he doesn't honor them he gets corrected for it. He will soon learn, if he likes catching game, where the action is and will start going to the jumped dogs on his own without correction.

I also see hard headed independent trailing dogs that want honor your jump dogs at times, when they jumped the cat out ahead of the pack. They too get corrected for not honoring your jump dog. Seems like I have as many e-collars on my older dogs as I do on the young dogs at times, for one fault or another that I'm trying to correct. If my older dog's fault gets corrected and he doesn't do it for 10 to 15 hunts then if I feel confident in the dog again, I'll pull the e-collar back off. If the fault starts again the e-collar will go back on.

That's what I get into for having sorry dogs, always correcting. Maybe someday I'll have that perfect dog. Hope we all do. Happy hunting. Robbie

[call-me-ish]

Years ago when I was trying to aquire my own hounds (which is hard to do for some youths) I went to a trade-day with one of my uncles. I took a one year-old female that was in heat as trading material. She was a beautiful little tight made dog with absolutely no desire to hunt.

Late in the day after no nibbles on my hound, a man offered to trade me one of the ugliest hounds/cross I had ever seen. The dog was colored like a bluetick ( which I do not consider ugly) but was long haired like a sheperd. As I cinched the deal, my uncle was shaking his head for me not to do it.

The one statement the man had made about the dog (Ole Blue) was that he was very "INDEPENDENT). When we were driving home my uncle said "you know what that independent term means don't you? It means you will spend more time looking for the dog than hunting coon."

This dog had been severely abused and did not want to be touched, but would come when called and load. I kept him a couple of weeks before taking him hunting, thinking I might loose him first trip out and this was my only dog.

My Dad had a big B&T (2 yr, old) that was fairly tight mouthed on track and was very light on the tree. I borrowed him to pen with Ole Blue for a week before hunting them together.

The first time I dropped the tailgate I thought Ole Blue was running away, because he literally slung gravel on the truck and within ten minutes was struck deep in the bottom on a coon. He turned out to be a straight coon dog that would not pull even to a better track. He was the beginning of my desire for the "INDEPENENT DOG". He didn't possess all the traits I wanted in a hound, but as I began to put young dogs with him I found myself favoring those who aquired the independent style.
Even today I will mentally compare all dogs styles against "Ole Blue"

[007pennpal]

Thanks for the replies. Keep em coming. I have one that is an excellent lead dog, however if you don't put her down first, she just might come back or go find her own. I have lots of dogs so its not a problem getting enough in the game, but I was thinking what if I had two like that??? Then its an issue if I want em all in the race. Maybe I'm stubborn, but I like to rotate leaders at times to let lesser dogs rise, but I don't like a dog telling me it needs to lead or forget it. I too train mine that a shock means come back, so I'm not sure that would help. Because not going with the pack unless you start the trail is the problem. Also, I sometimes like to cut dogs into the race, and if a dog won't honor the sounders, then how can you get it in? Now, on the other hand, she's been the solo dog at the tree when she didn't honor the others and she's damb accurate so she is often right. Just sharing my issue.

[South Texan]

007pennpal, now I understand the issue a little better and I have been pondering on what I would do if she was my dog. What I would try, if she was mine, I would turn her into the pack as they were running or trailing. If I saw that she wouldn't go to the other dogs and broke off on her own (I'm assuming you have a garmin tracking system), I would buzz her or shock her if needed and make her come back to me and load her back on the truck. I would keep turning her in until she finally went and joined the other dogs. If she learns she is going to get loaded back on the truck unless she honors the other dogs, maybe she will start going to the barking dogs. It will be join the barking dogs or nothing.

I would also take away her privilege of being a leader (hold her up) until she would honor the other dogs after being turned in.

Now this will be harder to see what she is doing unless you have the garmin tracking system as stated above. With it, you will be able to tell if she is going straight to the barking dogs or if she starts going off on her own little tangent.

These or just my thoughts on the issue, it might not work, I don't know. But that is what "I" would try. Someone else sure probably has a better method of curing this issue. I'll be watching this post for other methods. Please keep us posted on the out come of this issue which ever method you try. Maybe we can all learn something from it. Thanks. Robbie

[dwalton]

: I think you covered it well. I think like you the dogs hunt with me not I with them. As you said with GPS and shock collars it is a lot easier to train. I try to run shock collars on all my dogs all the time. I never want to be put in the position to ask something of them that I can not reinforce. Dewey

[007pennpal]

Here's the thing. Mid season I sent my lead dog off to be bred. Old lead dog had insanely cold nose. Subject dog had second coldest nose but had been a summa time dog. Summa time she went summa time she don't. She was young so I was still figuring on that one. Just thought she wasn't so good. Then, with lead dog gone the subject dog was a super champion leading the pack to success after success. I couldn't believe it. Like my top cold starter was still there. When my old lead dog came back I figured it out. The whole time she was a summa time dog because she didn't want to follow the leader. I'm like check this dog out, she can tree a cat solo, bam, bam, bam, super dog ah witha problem. George Streepy, you got this one wrong. I found the strengths when I hunted my dog solo. Found the weakness packed up but, I had no clue. Figures. I hope it wasn't a shock collar thing that I somehow caused. She is sensitive. At least I know about summa time and that she's capable. By the way, I'm pretty jazzed about that as if you couldn't tell. Thanks for the ideas. I'll be working on it.