Training W/O Experience or $$$$.

[Warner5]

Mike Martell put this up a couple weeks ago. This is damn good honest advice. I also train like this. It has alway's worked for me.

"QUOTE I don't switch nothing from where i expect a dog to be chained on the rig deck to how i expect them to load each in its own kennel spot when returning home. Dogs that don't understand the basics don't last long...Dogs are simple and so am I....I start my cat dogs, all one of them from scratch on coon, once solid and locating well, not to mention bent off trash they are transitioned over to bobcats. Once they catch a bobcat on a regular basis, I go back to the creek bottoms thick with coon and the dog teaches itself to rig on coon, then back to rigging bobcats.The first dog in my pack was 18 months when he become a solid locating tree dog in the big timber and from there is where it falls into place. I'm very careful to not add the third dog until the second dog has the ability to do the same as my first dog. but i must admit once i have the main dog solid, it goes really quick carrying over to the next. END QUOTE" Thank you, Mike.

I trained a top notch cat dog from a pup, out of a cross that I had made by 20 years old. By doing like Mike has wrote here. And if I could do it most any one can. You need Time, a dog with good balanced breeding and alot of determination. Dogs with good balanced breeding should show much potential with exposure only training(hunting). Use coons as a tool to help train your young dogs, more good than bad will come from it, the dogs I have kept over the years prove it.

At some point you will run off game, its O.K. every one deals with it. Just dont get down on yourself "LEARN FROM IT". Everything you do is a situation to learn and gain experience. I'm not trying to take away from Dewey's Training post. Just pointing out other proven way's. Well enough of my B.S. for now. John.

I would like to encourage some of the older generation respected hound trainers to add to this. I just ask one thing. Please keep in mind this site is used by new to the sport or young to be houndsmen, advanced cat dog training may be to much and overwhelm them. Al Baldwin, Dan Deppen, Mike Martell, Brad Padgett. Please write a line or two & help these young dog trainers out. Thank you. John Warner.

[Ringo]

Do you guys break your dogs off of coon after this or do they just figure it out on there own?

[Warner5]

My dogs alway's just seemed to break themselves once they started catching cats. Had a few stubborn dogs, in those case's I only had to discourage at the tree a few times. Hope this helps. John.

I have also used fox as training tools, fox are easly caught in a live trap. A guy can get some bobcat scent and carefully apply it to the fox. The fox will teach the dogs to move a track head up, through open ground and brush hole's simular to a cat but heavly scented. John.

[Dads dogboy]

Warner 5,

Always like your well thought out Posts!

You and Mike Martell point out very good ways to start/train a Bobcat dog in your country. Mr. Mike Leanords "Training Tips" at the top of each page will darn sure work up North, the North East and selected places in the Midwest.

But just like the types of Hounds and skill sets needed to Catch a Cat in the different regions, Training/Starting requires adjusting. In the South and Southeast starting a Hound on Coon will not work nealy as well as starting them either on Grey Fox or directly on Bobcat. Coons require different Skills, Actions and Reactions from a Hound than what is needed on a Bobcat. Starting on Coon will hinder the Pup/Young Hound to the point of possibly keeping them from fulfilling their potential as a Bobcat Hound.

In most Texas, the South and the Southeast a Hound needs to be a Running type Hound who can Trail, rather than a Trailing type Hound who can run.

What you and Mr. Mike explain so well is surely good where more Trailing is needed (using the Coon), but might slow a new comer to Hounds down this way from having enough success on Bobcats after he tries to transission the Hounds to stay interested in Bobcats. But there is sure nothing wrong with a good Coon Race with a Mask and ringtail at the end...that is if you are Coon Hunting!

JMO

[al baldwin]

John my first hunting rig was a 75.00 nash rambler, back seat out, straw on the floor board, riding in style! I had the old Bell hound, after work, swing shift, up the river or salmon creek. Spot light coon, walk her to the track, she treed the first one I put her on, treed like an old dog. Flustutrating, she opened very little on those tracks at first. I did that numerous times until she started open some on track. Then starting walking her along the creek & river, caught some coons, but ran tracks was not sure about. She could not have been much over a year old when she treed her first bobcat. Hard for me to believe to this day, but she caught it in the Woodbe bluffs. Had park nash at Boundry Campground & walked her up an old over grown logging road. She started the track, I was nervous, had no choice, let her work. Took her about an hour, but she put a nice tom on a ledge near the very top of woodbe. Worked my way to the top, walked right above on top of the bluff, shot the cat. Cat fell over bluff, she bailed over after it. Scared the heck out of me, worked down to find her chewing on the cat , unharmed. They had landed on a ledge about 15 to 20 feet below me, able to get her and the cat. Headed home on cloud nine. No she never made a true cat hound, but she treed several cat alone, she was a tom specialest. When I think back on her she was at areal disadvantage with me as her trainer, but she made a hound that the local goverment bear hunters ,come to respect. I knew when I got invited to help kill a sheep killing bear Bell was who they really wanted along. Once help kill a 428 pound bear that was killing , all the buck sheep in Sam Dement/s buck pen. Started out with several dogs on the bear, when Bill McSperit & I shot the bear on the ground, only Bell & Deacon a young son of hers was at the bay up. Leon Elliott the government hunter,s good dog Duke died the next day at the vets, had broken rib pushed thru a lung. Bill/s champ dog had to be carried to the rig and recovered in the vets too hunt lots more. A young plott that leon had borrowed, was never found. Leon tried to buy Bell from me, he used to take a bear head & snap it at the dogs. His dogs would spook & run Bell would stand and look at him, he say better sale her, she will not live long. I think she was just very intelligent. Later I coon broke her with no Tri-Tronic. Yes there was a few wrecks along the way, but, how I would love to redo it all over again, wrecks & all. A picture of that old hound sit on my night stand with the first bear she treed along. Two hounds in my kennel can be traced back to her, they have never ran a bear. Bell nor any of her offspring were never fighters. So when I say all bear hounds are not dumb aligators, I speak from experience. IF I can train a hound from stratch anyone can. These are true facts. Hope you enjoy. Thanks Al Baldwin

[twist]

Coon hunting sure dont hurt a thing in this area to start a young dog out befor it is turned over to bobcat. But if a person does his home work and finds a certain strain that has been breed for bobcats the training is sure easier all they need is exposure and the rest just falls in place. Andy

[outlaw13]

Really enjoyable story Al, Thanks.

[TRW]

I enjoyed your stories and and how you tell names of the hounds its nice to here about certian dogs that are worthy of having a name not just the whole pack.