???? IS BIG BROTHER WATCHING ????

[bency]

+ 2 ....Box Rocker & Lookin Up....Fish cops hardly any out there worth a dam.

[Nolte]

Wardens have a tough job, but it really irks me when they give you the 5th degree for no reason. Many also seem to focus on stupid, piddly laws because they know it can round up some money for the state. I also really get irked by all these stupid gates that get thrown up on roads/trails that our grandfathers cleared to get access. Most were there before I or some of these wardens were born. What sense does it make to close them off and the access.

I don't like excessive use of cameras for this reason. It is a short cut to actually learning the skills to do their job effectively. Just like cameras on baits are a shortcut to actually learning to read tracks. If the right situation the should be used to nail down someone who is severly breaking the law. It should be the final tactic to get a conviction, not the first one used to fish around for info. I don't want a warden spending his whole day driving around checking cameras, I want him to be a visable presence or investigate situations that deserve it. It seems they drag their feet when someone makes a call in on something suspicious and that irks me. If you are in favor of massive use of game cameras, don't be suprised when the ticket comes in the mail for some law you didn't even know existed. Then you'll get the opportunity (hassle) to prove your innocence or just pay the ticket. And I'd about bet the ticket will be cheaper.

[Boar Runner]

Damn Straight there watching! found many cameras in my area. the ones that where on private property i took to a local deputy sherriff, figured he placed them. they were trying to get pics of the pot growers, but have more pics of myself and my dogs. i live in an area that allows training year round other than archery season. I took great offense to the law tresspassing on my property, as well as others that I look after. its non of there business when or where I run my dogs, and I always do my best to stay within the law. here in Ca. thats a tough job in itself. our laws are written purposley to leave plenty of room for inturpretation, or I should say mis-inturpretation... I take every opportunity to use a wardens time to make sure we both have the same view on every law that applies to me.

[Emily]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only old fogey who has a problem being watched by game cams. I go to the wilderness to get away from constant surveillance. Its bad enough that I can't pee in private at the edge of a large parking lot. I don't want to be thinking that the guy who's accusing me of spotlighting when I'm actually coon hunting has seen my bare ass repeatedly when he checks his cameras and is just checking to see what my face looks like. I don't care whether he's doing his job poorly or well. I like my privacy!
All this technology has its place, but it takes the fun away if you don't learn what our grandfathers knew and keep the tech aids in their place. I want to be able to find my dogs, and I want them to follow their noses, but I don't want constant supervision while I'm doing it. That goes for law enforcement and other hunters on public land, and academic biologists tracking wild game, too. I find that half the youngsters I take hunting with me step over tracks without noticing them because they're so glued to GPS receivers. They're so eager to get to their legal baits that they'll walk through a berry patch covered with bear tracks without noticing them, and pull their hounds, that want to investigate, right past too. I'm proud of being able to read my dogs and take my time reading sign--if only because I'm too old and slow to run past stuff that interests me.
I don't carry a cell phone and I live where they don't work. If I break my leg in the woods, I'll find a way to hobble down to a road without calling in a helicopter, and I won't whine about it.

[lioncat32]

"I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO DETAILS ABOUT MY RUN IN"

sounds like there was something wrong or he wouldn't have stopped you or took you to court. I am glad they are out there keeping everyone honest! if people were not doing illegal stuff they wouldn't have to put cameras up. just my 1.5 cents

[SHADOWHUNTER]

LIONCAT, YOU AND EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD CAN INTERPRET THIS HOW EVER YOU WANT. I REALLY DON'T CARE. YOU'RE FROM NEW MEXICO, AND IM SURE YOU READ THE PROCLAMATION. WELL THERE ARE PLENTY OF GREY AREAS THAT ARE OPEN FOR POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE INTERPRETATION. I ENJOY MY HUNTING PRIVILEGES, AND DO RESPECT THE LAWS THAT ARE PUT INTO PLACE. BUT WHEN YOU GET A ROOKIE TRYING TO MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF AN INNOCENT PERSON, THAT'S NOT RIGHT! AND NO, I HAVEN'T GIVEN ALL THE DETAILS

[bigmikej]

I was bored so I started reading older posts and I just couldn't resist telling this story. Some friends and myself were hunting on some corp of engineer land near Lake Whitney Texas. It was duck season so I had my lab and Ialso took my border collie who used to go everywhere with me. My buddies had two german shepherds and a pitbull. Now these were clients of mine, I used to train protection dogs, so there dogs were obedience and protection trained, but not hunting dogs. A game warden was waiting for us when we returned to the truck and started asking the typical questions. He made sure that we had steel shot since we were after ducks and we told him we also had some lead six shot and that all we had shot was a squirrel that one of the german shepherds had treed. Then he asked about some buck shot that we had amongst the other shells. Now, buck shot is legal on corp property for hogs or any other game except for deer(archery only), so we didn't think much of it when he asked about why we had it with us. We told him that we just happened to have them in there ,but they would come in handy if we had run across the pack of hogs that runs around there. Then he took our liscenses and made sur we had our corp of engineer permits and went to his truck. After a minute he came back and let us go on our way. About a week later we all recieved $100 tickets in the mail from the corp office for hunting hogs with dogs on corp land, which is illegal, but we had a lab, border collie, and some protection dogs. Not one had a cut vest or tracking collar. We tried to explain to the corp people that we wern't hog hunting but the almighty game warden's word was all that mattered, so we ended up paying the fine to keep the right to hunt on corp land. My point is if they want to be crooked bastards there is not much you can do to stop them. I think if they're going to put cameras up in the woods where people might be going to the bathroom or who knows what else then it ought to be legal to put them in public restrooms to make sure people aren't doing drugs in the stalls, or put them in changing rooms at the store to make sure people aren't shoplifting. I have trained a lot of dogs for law enforcement officers and have met a couple of good ones, but most of them were egotistical jerks with a complex that loved to jack with people just because they could. One said he couldn't wait to sick his dog on someone. I sure would have hated to be stopped by him, it was all I could do just to be around him for training purposes.
Sorry I went so long Happy New Year M
Mike

[icehole]

I was stopped today by a game warden. I will say he was nice and one of the better ones I have encountered. I was driving down the road in my buggy with the dogs in the box. He stopped me and asked for my licence and blah blah blah. My question is why do I have to show him a licence unless I am trailing a cat. Why do I have to show a fish cop a licence unless my pole is in the water? I am sure he didnt check the cross country skiers goin down the road for a licence. Maybe I just want to take my dogs out to run like all the zombies with their labs, bet they dont get checked. Just venting a little but I did have a run in with a real dick during elk season. Any warden that wants to give a youth hunter (my son)a hard time when perfectly legal is a dick.

[bigmikej]

He probably wouldn't have been so nice if you told him you didn't need a license since you weren't hunting anything at the moment. We asked two different wardens if we needed a license to run beagles on rabbits if we didn't carry a gun or bow. One said yes and one said no we would be just hiking with our dogs like anyone else so once again it just depends on if they want to be jerks or not. I don't think you could have done much to fight it if you didn't have a license and he wanted to give you a ticket.
Mike

[FullCryHounds]

Won't those same game cameras also show that you are NOT breaking any laws?

[bigmikej]

I guess thats one way to look at it, but I wouldn't want surveillance cameras in my house in order to show that I don't beat my wife. I really wouldn't care if the wardens came and hunted with me or jumped in the boat and fished right alongside of me because I follow the laws, but it's always the same reasoning when people want more control. They tell you "As long as your not doing anything wrong then you've got nothing to worry about". It might be true at first but ask the gun owners in Australia if gun registration didn't contibute to the confiscation of their firearms. I just feel that the answer is not in more surveillance, but harsher punishment for those that do get caught doing wrong. I bet that kid that got caned in Singapore isn't considering going there and keying anymore cars, but we have criminals here that get out of prison and go right back to what they were doing that landed them there. Our system just doesn't work that well and putting up cameras is mostly just going to let the wardens know who's coming and going unless someone does something illegal in front of one. It's just a shame that sportsman, 99% of whom are law abiders have stuff like this thrown at them,but they don't put cameras at the crack dealers house even after they've been caught several times and found guilty. On a side note that is an awsome mount in the lion section. I'd like to come to the stock show and see it up close. I live near Clovis so it wouldn't be too terrilbly far.

Mike

[Peter Meyer]

Damn right they are. And I guarantee they are reading these posts whoever "they" are. If you don't live in California then kiss my ass you lucky bastards. Starting today I am a coonhunter. And the first game warden, I mean wildlife warden to run me legally hunting coons better be prepared to become nationally known. It sucks for them having to enforce a bad law.

"There is no hunting like the hunting of bear with hounds, and those who have hunted
bear with hounds long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."

A quote by me with a little help from Hemingway. -Pete


p.s. to the antis monitoring these posts: f u

[44magman]

move to the other side of the usa . i live in maine and it is one of the best states to be a hunter and dog runner in . no earth quakes or mud slides either .

[BoarHunter1]

A Most Interesting thread.
Mine will also tie into the thread.

In essence, you have No rights, IF you dont know your rights and assert them.

The Govt lackeys (including Judges) have No rights Over you, UNLESS You give them their Jurisdiction.
Its called Common Law Vs Maritime Admiralty law, which is what is practiced in America.

The Govt fears these people because they do not consent to our bogus man made statuatory laws, as our laws come from GOD, Our Creator.

They have NO Right to stop you, detain you, ask for ID..Nothing. Unless you are suspected of a crime.
Can you imagine our Founding Fathers being detained or stopped and consenting?
Some may come along and attempt to bash this, but they are shills and liars.

You can watch Video on Utube of a Free man in court, who has the Judge Bow to him, walk out, and dismiss the case by adandoing his own courtroom.
Dont try this at home folks, unless you well know what youre doing and have studied it.

In addition to cameras being installed illegally and unconstitutionally on your Own land and public lands to spy on you, every one of your phone calls and emails is tracked and archived offsite to the Israeli Amdocs and Converse corporations, who perform said services for the US Govt.