Runnin dogs???

[Flip]

Jc I'm not a cat hunter I'm a fox hunter but catch several cats and am not claiming to have a cat dog u would own but where I hunt these dogs have no problem locating I think the quality of locating your talking about comes with lots of locating experience.even a natural locate dog has to learn to be that kind of tree dog.what about when a cat slips em on a tree or jumps trees and heads out. This is all things a good tree dog has to learn and if a guy hunts with several dogs whose to say a hard tree bred dog won't lock down with pressure untell he gets the experience. I have to go back to the song u have to hunt what works for your program in your country

[Spot]

I dont know where you came from in Oregon but there are a lot of guys hunting do it all dogs in both running crosses and tree dogs. Get out and look around a little.

[merlo_105]

There is a Guy who runs around in the same mountains as I he hunts with running dog crosses every single one of them are. Every single one of them can and will catch cat on there own, every single one of them will Locate doesnt matter how tall a tree is or how nasty the area is. Its all about finding what clicks for you and your area he doesnt go run cat he just goes and catches them...

[jcathunter]

Jc I'm not a cat hunter I'm a fox hunter but catch several cats and am not claiming to have a cat dog u would own but where I hunt these dogs have no problem locating I think the quality of locating your talking about comes with lots of locating experience.even a natural locate dog has to learn to be that kind of tree dog.what about when a cat slips em on a tree or jumps trees and heads out. This is all things a good tree dog has to learn and if a guy hunts with several dogs whose to say a hard tree bred dog won't lock down with pressure untell he gets the experience. I have to go back to the song u have to hunt what works for your program in your country

I agree with you wholeheartedly. To me, locating is an art and it is very similar and somewhat connected to running a track. I dont want a dog that runs out of track and locks down. Thats as bad as a dog that runs out of track and leaves a lot of the time. I want that dog that just knows where the cat is whether he is on a rock, on a limb, or in a hole. They just know. From what I've seen, this type of dog will tree differently in different situations. Not by their bark but by the way they act. Some like to look at the cat or where they know the cat is. Some seem to wind the cat. Sometimes they may be back from a small cluster of trees if the trees are clumped.
As you said, they learn these things and learn to read the situation with experience but I also think a lot of dogs can't learn that or don't want to. Hopefully that makes sense as I dont really know how to say what I'm trying to say. It takes a natural, born in ability or drive to push a dog to become better at locating just like it does with a track dog.
Spot, I'll try to get out more.

[jcathunter]

I'll also add that I have no doubts that running dog crosses are out there layin it to the cats and some amazing crosses are being made. They just don't get into too many hands and for good reason. When a guy produces top dogs like that it becomes well known and the next thing you know you have guys crossing them up left and right and producing the kind of dogs that I am talking about that won't locate. I believe that breeding dogs is tricky business and when you add in the running dog factor it gets to be something that I feel is better left to those who know what they are doing.

[twist]

Just because a dog has running blood in it doesnt mean it can run or trail any better and same goes just because a dog has tree blood in it doesnt mean it will tree. It takes fine tuning in any breeding program to get the right calibur of dog that consistantly catches cats. None are superior over any, there is good and bad in both. Andy

[merlo_105]

I agree with you there Jcat, the guy I speak of is that way doesnt let to many dogs go unless he is sure by you. Plus he wants two arms and three legs for them but they are worth it. There is to many bad crosses going on these days reason is every one breeds best to the best well if anyone understands dna and genes you'll know thats just dumb play. But oh well aint my problem, what is my problem is having to find the dogs that work for muah...

[JTG]

Merlo, you sure got it right. In the long term, breeding the best to the best only works when the hounds are related. Intelligent selection and consistency is what brings lasting improvement.
Breeding comes down to this, The goal to any breeding program is to produce a new generation that is better than the parent stock.
With breeding of hounds of any type, the selection process involves finding genetically superior males and females and mating these individuals together in advantageous combinations.
The true test,if a breeding method is working, just look at the improvement of the offspring compared to the parents.
JTG

I agree with you there Jcat, the guy I speak of is that way doesnt let to many dogs go unless he is sure by you. Plus he wants two arms and three legs for them but they are worth it. There is to many bad crosses going on these days reason is every one breeds best to the best well if anyone understands dna and genes you'll know thats just dumb play. But oh well aint my problem, what is my problem is having to find the dogs that work for muah...

[slowandeasy]

Merlo, you sure got it right. In the long term, breeding the best to the best only works when the hounds are related. Intelligent selection and consistency is what brings lasting improvement.
Breeding comes down to this, The goal to any breeding program is to produce a new generation that is better than the parent stock.
With breeding of hounds of any type, the selection process involves finding genetically superior males and females and mating these individuals together in advantageous combinations.
The true test,if a breeding method is working, just look at the improvement of the offspring compared to the parents.
JTG

I agree with you there Jcat, the guy I speak of is that way doesnt let to many dogs go unless he is sure by you. Plus he wants two arms and three legs for them but they are worth it. There is to many bad crosses going on these days reason is every one breeds best to the best well if anyone understands dna and genes you'll know thats just dumb play. But oh well aint my problem, what is my problem is having to find the dogs that work for muah...

Both of these quotes people should read until they read the print off. The only thing I might add to the goal for the quality of the off spring. Is, AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN THEIR PARENTS. Because if ya aren't happy with AS GOOD ya shouldn't have made the cross to begin with. I am unable to say these things in regard to conducting a breeding program. As I have put others ahead of myself ( family ). As that ship has sailed. And when ya reach this point ya become quite comfortable in your own skin and don't care what others think or who has the best, because it's all about havin fun. But for those that know Dad and I. I guess it's like the song says I ONCE CAME MIGHTY CLOSE.


Sorry for being lazy and not looking back at the name of the poster that said these special hounds ARE A GIFT. But you know who you are and those following this know also. These are also more truer words than have been spoken. Thank you, and I might add that these gifts only come through knowledge and hard work as a reward.


Take care, Willie

[oconee]

There is a Guy who runs around in the same mountains as I he hunts with running dog crosses every single one of them are. Every single one of them can and will catch cat on there own, every single one of them will Locate doesnt matter how tall a tree is or how nasty the area is. Its all about finding what clicks for you and your area he doesnt go run cat he just goes and catches them...

Just tell whats' wrong with setting my goal to have a pack of hounds like this merlo_105 is describing. Obviously the mentality in the cat hunting world is totally different than most because I've read more post in one day about living with faults in a dog if that dog does other things well enough. It is starting to appear that most cat hunters are concerned with the success of their "pack" and not the quality of dogs within that pack.

[Spot]

Because all dogs have faults and holes in them. Some just dismiss them and pretend they dont exist while other aknowelege them and decide if they can live with them or try another prospect. Just because a dog can catch cats all by itself doesnt mean it is without faults.

[oconee]

Spot,
I think the answer to my confusion may lie with my ideal of what a "FAULT" is versus the ideal of a "FAULT" to other dogmen. I find it hard to "FAULT" a dog in any way if it does everything adequate enough to catch game. I may feel the dog is" WEAK" in some area but it had to preform all aspects or it wouldn't have caught the game. My ideal of a dog with "FAULTS" is a dog that cannot preform one of the aspects nessarary. Striking, trailing, treeing, or etc. I don't want dogs that are "WEAK" either but that dog is not a cull in my eyes, whereas a dog with a true "FAULT" is a cull to me. JMO!!!

This whole topic got started because I noticed some people where adding "running dogs" to their packs just for speed and to help them catch a cat and I just didn't want to get myself into something like that, AND WON"T!!! I've gotten enough positive feedback to support my theory that it doesn't have to be that way.

Thanks to all, and my opinions are just that and not meant to offend anyone!!!

[slowandeasy]

Quote Oconee : This whole topic got started because I noticed some people where adding "running dogs" to their packs just for speed and to help them catch a cat and I just didn't want to get myself into something like that, AND WON"T!!!


Don't want to sound crude. But if you are thinking the reason for these crosses is based on speed alone. The whole deal will certainly be a learning experience for you. But hey, that's what it's all about. I'll give ya a clue though. An average and above beagle has enough speed to force most critters to climb. Good luck and have fun, it will be a humbling experience.


Take care, Willie

[Spot]

There are some good guys in Ok. that are using running dogs to catch cats just like there are guys catching cats with tree bred dogs. Find them and hunt with each of them then decide which style you prefer. One mans fault in a dog is another's weakness. Also you should judge the cats as well ( pop ups, straight runners, circlers, duck and dodgers, etc etc. all these things factor in to what dog can and cant catch a cat.

You cant offend me.

[dwalton]

I treed my first bobcat 48 years ago and hunted straight cat dogs for 35 years. I have owned and hunted with many good cat dogs most of them walker breeding. I have had a lot of dogs able to tree a bobcat, that's not hard to do. I have owned 4 or 5 top bobcat dogs, not saying the others could not get the job done on, but when you hunt with a top dog you know what can be done. Most of the dogs that were top have running dog in them. If you wait and are looking for that top dog in my book you will look for a long time. It is far easier to put together 2 to 4 or 8 dogs that can make a top pack that catches almost every bob they jump. Bobcat dogs are no better than their owner being able to pick and match a group of dogs and the knowledge to make it happen. A truly good cat dog will come down to the ability of its current owner in a short time. Every bodies yard stick as to what a good dog is is different but until you hunt with someone that catches hundreds of bobcats and seldom misses a jump your are comparing apples to oranges. I think the guys that catch that many bobs with running dogs or part just might have some tree dogs in there, running dogs that tree. Each to their own, hunt what you have the ability to hunt. Dewey