Runnin dogs???

[merlo_105]

Im loving the good reading, I have never seen Deweys dogs work I have heard alot about his dogs from people who have hunted with them and so on. And what I hear I like. I have talked to Dewey a handful of times and he is a stand up guy. He is not out to turn a quik buck on his breeding he aint pushing his dogs or saying there the best all he says is they work. Well some people have high goals and some people do not. Some people are bankers and lawyers, some people are not. Some people want more and some people settle. I dont think you have to have running dog to catch cat I have two dogs that do a fine job and there far from running blood. But the guys who are catching high quanitys of cat do have running blood in there dogs that has alot to say for whats going on in the cross dog world.. I like a dog that catches game it could be blue, white or pink I dont care.

[Jkohnke]

Plenty running walker stock here in south ms so when y'all ready to do some cross breading come on down lol if running dogs bring nothing else to the table it's heart. I coyote ,fox and deer hunt them and have for 30 years. I have 6 that tomorrow will make their 5 day in a row running and they will go again tomorrow and sat. When I say running I mean running not boo hoo trailing and ground pounding I'm mean under game driving it. They have heart that's for sure. I'm not talking of just my dogs but the breed in general. I've had them to stay out for 2 days or more and when you pick them up their eyes are rolled back in their head no hair left on their nose (thanks to our saw briars ) and look like death warmed over from running and if you need them to they will come right back out of the truck and go again. This post was about adding or not adding running dogs to catch cat. I'm not a cat hunter but I've raised and hunted running dogs all my life. They have heart ,speed ,drive and nose. The only thing they lack is the treeing. Wich they are NOT bred to do. So why wouldn't you do a little cross breeding if you wanted to step up the speed of your pack or tuffness.

[jcathunter]

"The best dogs I have ever owned taught me a hell of a lot more than I ever taught them." That does say it all. Dewey

Yes, it really does. It says that I am able to learn from a truly great hound because I do not already know it all. When I came to your house, Dewey, my wife actually thought you were being sarcastic because your bragging was so blatant. Now, I'm not saying you don't catch cats because I know you do. I'm not saying you dont' have dogs that you like very much because it is very clear that you do. I am only saying that I do not like what you have. I made darn sure not to make any negative comments in my posts that were not actual things I had seen with my own eyes. Now, if you actually were as great as you say you are and your dogs caught more cats than anyone in the country, I would still think the same of your arrogance. In my posts I talked of having the opportunity to see true cat dogs work and you made sure to make comments about yardsticks and downplay anyones dogs but your own. Now, as for my own dogs, heck, I truly don't care what anyone says about them because I'm sure I say worse but your implications about those who have taught me did not sit well with me because I can assure you that you would need to double check your yardstick if you tried to compare yourself to those men.
Jkohnke, I agree that, done correctly, it can be benificial but when the pups being produced will not tree, its being done wrong.

[Spot]

What difference does it make when i joined the site? Or where i post? Are you in charge of that on here? If so i apologize, just let me know where and when i can post. Thank You

[al baldwin]

Willie, I am going to answer some of your comments. I have never said Dewy don/t have good cat dogs. I will say that more than one in Oregon does not believe his dogs are as good as Dewy says they are. The first time I met Dewy he came to my house to bred Pepper to my skinner hound, her grandsire. After visiting with Dewy that day , told him he might want to check other stud, just felt he was a little unrealistic. That day I recall he told me Pepper was the third best cat hound he had owned, I was surprised to hear that. Later, after I started reading BGH, he praised her so high I thought she must be better then any of her ancestors, I ever hunted with. Most recent, he says she was useless as a cat dog until he put her with running dogs. I have no trouble believing, in her best days she would have trouble catching a hard running , duck dodge cat, I also owed her granddame, built and acted just like pepper, I would feed another just like her, but a hard running duck, dodge cat gave her a hard time. Put a hound that had some jump speed and it could be a different story. A very good box dog, very good locating tree dog, better than average cold trailer, smart, some out ran her bad at times, but few threw her out of a race and a great disposition. I was to get two pick of the litter male pups for my stud fee, was shocked to learn Dewy was asking 500 a pup. Dewy contacted me when those pups were about a month old, to let me know another female had killed all those pups. A year later he bred her to skinner again, no pups. Now Dewy insinuates , I don/t know enough about hounds to know a good hound when I hunt with one.
The old ten year old hound that I mentioned today, used to be owned by a friend of Dewy/s. That friend and Dewy both told me that hound out ran Dewy/s hounds most of the time and fact is dumped Dewy/s hounds at least once and caught that cat. I ask you if those hounds were so great, how did they let that happen. Dewy even admitted on line once that hound could out run his dogs, but it did him on good, he could not catch the cat. I could continue, but will just say some good cat hunters here just shake their head, when they hear some of the things Dewy post . Maybe Dewy is as superior has he says, more power to him. Al

[Tim Pittman]

Jcathunter- just curious who your talking about,for my own curiousity ?
Al- you were told the good and the bad, the man that sold you the dog knows this, as I wouldn't lie to you or anyone else,for anyone or myself. As I've stated before, I've hunted with quite a few, and last time I checked results were measured off success, not attitude or personality in dogs or people. George Foreman was a great personality, Mike Tyson was a prick, both great fighters[results/success] this humble/ego deal has been beat to death.
He unlike most will take anybody[knowledgeable or novice] hunting with him, has offered time and time again, you don't find to many guys catching bobs like this posting let alone making a standing offer all the time.
Jcathunter- I have a litter mate to the hound you had, perfect? No, good/ to better than good yes! He had holes, but that's my job as a handler/trainer to correct and train. Dave Walker who owned their sire also has a littermate[ nice dog] I have no doubt a lot /most guys couldn't get one of these dogs trained/hunted when they were young[ they were a handful, but light in the tree department]. Point is there are ones who make ones who don't, as cobalt has said before, the handler has to do their part as well.
Al- everybody is glad ole Buddy dog is doing good. Robin sold him cause he was light on tree, pete sold him the first time to me cause ha had a better strike/tree dog,bought him back cause that dog was stolen. I sold cause I had better dogs that were a third his age! Its not like we should all be in a big war here all the time, if we don't believe what somebody says, call them on it, but be willing to go and be proved wrong, I try and do that every opportunity, when I hear of something I haven't experienced. Sometimes I come away disappointed, sometimes I come away scratching my head, trying to learn from what I just seen.
Let me close with this, had the opportunity to hunt with some good cathunters/bearhunters/lionhunters, in many different states. And then some great hunters, the great ones hardly ever just chalk up failure - to that's just houndoggin for ya! They try to figure things out and correct things that can be corrected/ the variables that can be manipulated by the hunter/dogman. They constantly strive to be better and to make better dogs[realizing special dogs are special, because they'are rare, even in great breeding and placed in great hands]. There are lots of personality differences, but bottom line is success is success, and most of the guys catching large numbers of anything aren't willing to keep anything around but the cream of the crop, and why should they? They're gonna catch game with or without the duds/ me too'ers/ middle of the roaders/ or the ones that look like a million, but are really counterfeit.

[Tim Pittman]

As far as the core of this post. It looks like, there's a balance to be had[ based on conditions/ and terrain] to how much if any runnin dog will benefit a hounds ability. All my dogs have some to half running dog in the blood. Do I think its possible to find a dog that doesn't who could make a top catdog? Yes, and I'm looking as we speak. I like balanced dogs,who have all the dpartments covered for catching the game of my choice[bobcats] and believe I'm going to continue to look, seeking always something to improve with.
I might add this, in my opinion[not worth much] some of the high end catcatchers are not for the weekend hunter, they do not even become enjoyable [in my opinion] till after hunted for a couple long days. And some are not the showiest/earliest starting individuals. I've gathered this by raising 2-4 pups from different breeding/breeders every year for the past 6 years,from all over the country, all colors, and from the best guys in the sport. In this time I've raised a couple litters of my own and kept a couple to several out of each of those litters. Some [mine and outside dogs] make some some don't. The ones that make it,some suit/please me some do not. I can only look back and think of one that I thought that did/and or would that did not, and that guy was on the fence for quite awhile[she fooled both of us]. Not all of these dogs have been running dog crosses either,some registered, some best to best bred. To me this still doesn't mean they are not out there, as I hope cobalt finds me a dog, soon out of his crosses,as I've seen good stuff out of what he's cooking up over there!

[merlo_105]

When someone comes up with a small walker male or english dog bred with 1/4 or less running dog in it I got quite the dog to breed to heres the catch, The male must be a semi silent on track semi cold nose track drifter good tree dog ok to great locator. Small feet body build needs to be narrow at the stomach area semi bent back legs, no straight legs. Any voice will do. Cant think of anything else right now just trying to simplify it. So people feel free to let me know what you got. Pups will catch cat.

[al baldwin]

Tim, do not always remember things exactly as you, do not always agree with you, do not know how you could possible hunt that many young hounds in that time frame & give them all a fair chance. But, will say you should have been an ambassador for the United States. MEAN THAT AS A COMPLIMENT. You have a way of saying you are a bit superior, without pissing people off & and causing them to post things they wish they would have kept to themselves. Know Dewy is your mentor, but he could take a lesson from you in using tack when posting how great he and the dogs he breeds are. Al

[perk]

dont normally care to post, mostly lurk and read but i think ill add my 2 cents worth now. Kinda disappointed by the way this thread went. Read 7 pages worth to only find what i ultimately expected, guys who like running dogs like running dogs, guys who think running dogs cant/wont tree or are useless in the cat hunting. Some from the same areas, some probably hunt different terrians all together. just kinda seemed to turn into a p*ssing match, which is fine too because its America, and everyone has the right to their opinion.

The number one thing to remember is 'your hound only has to suit you, you feed it, you hunt it, ultimately you are the one who needs to get the enjoyment out of your dog' at the end of the day MY opinion of your dog or breeding program means nothing if you like what your hunting, same with others on the board Dewey, Al, Merlo, Jcathunter, Jkohnke, mondomuttruner, Mike martell, Time Pittman, etc. (not calling out anyone, just using names from previous post, so no offence to anyone), their opinions of your dogs means nothing in the long run.

I hunt strictly running dogs, i live on the east coast, i run grey fox, red fox, and bobcats occasionally. growing up i have had foxdogs, coondogs, i have had rabbit dogs, deer dogs, etc. i have never felt the tree dogs ive SEEN, have had the speed to stay with or front the running dogs and actively drive a peice of game on the front end of a chase over a period of a long race. there are guys here who hunt tree stock after deer, they run GREAT!!!! in a deer race with a running dog where they have to pick their head up and fly, they normally dont tend to stay up on that front end, in my experiences. The running dogs i hunt in my pack and my buddies the majority of them will stay and dig/bay at a hole if the fox goes in the ground, some are decent locating and tree dogs up a tree, we want to know how the race ended, even if that means walking into the thick stuff and dragging them away from a hole on a leash, my race needs an end i can put my finger on and say THIS is what happened, hate for dogs to go find another peice of game to run when one race is over and leave the hole, or tree, even if u dont activrly tree stay there and show me your smart enough to know this is where it ended. i always felt the dogs that did this had the best 'prey drive', they wanted to bite their quarry.
some dont like their dogs to tree, they say im not digging it up or knocking it out, and a dead game cant run so why stop and tell me its over, let the silence tell me its over, i dont like the silence telling me, i wanna walk to the end and see that the fox got away but had to go in a hole or upa tree, not that he outsmarted me.

In summation to a post that probably means nothing, hunt what you like, try the dogs you like, running and tree dogs have their place, both can run, both can tree, both can be a worthless POS. I always say if the dog is causing more headache and anger than enjoyment, might be time to cull and move on.
Happy hunting and happy new years

[mike martell]

I remember a simpler time in life before the internet when all we did was hunt our hounds.....Remember those times?...Sitting around the fur shed at Tucker's waiting for a storm to break or for nightfall to load up and go hunting? The Feed lot at Hickey's was another place for hound hunters to hang out.....Dozens of dog hunters would show up daily to get reports because there were no internet or Cell phones and the only real communication was face to face. Probably would have got your a@@ beat if you acted like we do today, pretty easy to sit a thousand miles apart and type away, that never happened because we were all face to face daily. Funny thing, I remember it getting real deep all the time, but I never remember anyone getting pissed off at each other to the point we demonstrate here .....Sitting around at the fur shed someone would walk in with a fifth of Whiskey and a six pack of soda pop to mix when and a conversation broke out about a race they had and by the way, got to leave this cat for you to flesh and stretch.....Anyone remember those days? Long before computers? long before good shock systems? Long before tracking telemetry and many decades before Garmin?........ All this crap brought to you by progress! I think life was better back then when all we had to track our dogs was a bell attached to a collar that had a distance of about two hundred yards. I love modern technology but it has ruined us!

Good luck with whatever you hunt!

Mike

[mark]

Mike if you really think about it. Whiskey huntn and internet huntn have a lot in common. There have been some good points made on this thread. Running dog crosses not being able to locate and tree wasnt one of them.

[Ker_man]

Mr Martel, a lot of truth in what you just said about the way the internet lets folks say things from afar that they may or may not have to back up.
But one thing I think plays into the tone and feeling of what some people say is that many hound folks would be more at ease talking about the dogs around a pot bellied stove. In direct conversation so much of what we take from the talk will have to do with the tone, body language, ever notice how someone can say something that should piss you off but due to the way it is said it becomes an amusing unoffensive thing. Some of us don't really like typing. If you just typed and lost the whole post and start over but much shorter than the first one you may not get the message across as well. Also someone may appear swell on the net and be a prick on the phone or in person.
Back to those running dogs lol.

[mike martell]

Mike if you really think about it. Whiskey huntn and internet huntn have a lot in common. There have been some good points made on this thread. Running dog crosses not being able to locate and tree wasnt one of them.

Good point Mark! All we need now is a pop can symbol instead of the beer glass....I like the idea about locating better than a false treeing dog found in so many tree dog breeds....I have more need for a dog that wants to advance the track that of the game that is still on the ground....Probably why I will keep messing with the running dog/cross.....Sorry Ker _Man, I was typing away and almost missed your post...

Mike

[jcathunter]

Tim, I'm not going to name any names but I will say that new hunters and old hunters alike have been turned off really fast with the arrogance. I've said many times that I know Dewey catches cats but, when the conversation goes straight to "I'm the greatest thing since sliced bread" every single time, it becomes laughable. Kinda like Dennis Rodman. The guy could play ball for sure but he was still a joke. As for ol Slick, I have said all along that the dog could move flat move a cat. From the truck to the tree, he did a nice job but, when he got to the tree, he was done. I also know that in Deweys sales pitch trying to resell the dog he said the dog was great catching 5 cats in two days(or something very similar) and that the previous owner(me) had no idea what he had. He down played the owner and not the dog and he did this to one of my best friends. It was quite funny because my friend catches a few cats and he had hunted with the dog, and me, quite a bit in the very recent past.
The last few posts seem to be of the same general opinion that there are two sides here. The side that likes running dogs and the side that says they won't locate and tree. I've said several times that, done correctly, it could be beneficial. Then, I say that I haven't seen anyone doing it and producing tree dogs. I also said that I KNOW its being done to produce tree dogs and that they are out there but I haven't gotten my hands on one. Because I haven't found anything I liked that had running blood in it, I specifically got dogs that did not have running blood in them and, now, I'm enjoying my dogs and get to walk to a tree every so often.