What's the difference?

[john porter]

All my hounds have been raised in the house at some point in their life. I do this to lay the ground rules in case they get injured or sick. I let them out to run or just lay out in the sun, rain or snow whenever they want. These hounds are hunted from August to the end of March every year and will stay out on tag lines while I am camping during the winter.

[david]

My lead female lives in the house sleeps in the bed... I can tell you that the bond and trust that it has built with me and my dogs can not be matched. I hunt with a lot of different guys that all hunt with running dog crosses , NEVER have one of mine come up short or behind.

Jeff, I know of your dogs and know they are outstanding. So please tell us how many dogs you have tried raising in the house that were obviously too soft or some how adversely effected by living with your family.

Let me answer that for you: ZERO. Zero failures. Correct me if I am wrong.

OK we have examples from John Wick, Plowdog, Jeff Eberle, and John Porter. I guess John Wick is not on here much, but you other guys please tell us about at least one hunting hound that obviously caught less game because of living with you and your family. In fact, I expand that plea to anyone reading this who has raised a well bred hound inside and you know that the dog caught less game than it would have if it had been raised on a chain or in a kennel.

There has got to be at least one example of this. If we can just come up with one example of failure to put with the four examples of great benefit, we can have a 20% failure rate. And that will still be better than the cull rate of most honest breeders

There are not too many guys on here who hunt for a living. So why do you hunt with hounds? That is really a complicated question, but I will venture to say that one of the reasons most of us do it is because we enjoy it. We get pleasure from it.

So my next question to you guys that have raised your hunting dog with your family, is: did this some how diminish the level of enjoyment of your overall hounding experience?

Let me answer that for you: NO,

In fact, I am guessing that the bond Jeff mentioned has taken your experience to a level of pleasure you never dreamed of. And it is not only your pleasure, but also the pleasure your dog experiences because he understands that depth of connection and gut response to his master and the mutual feeling of accomplishment that goes with a successful hunt.

And maybe...just maybe, that dog is a better hunting dog than he would have been if he had grown up sitting bored in a kennel for most of his hours alive.

Just guessing. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Unreal_tk]

David.

One thing i have seen, is a few dogs who were family raise and never exposed to hunting properly just never get that drive. I'm talking someone buying a pup and intending to hunt it. Never did and then gives it to a hunter and still won't hunt and they came from good lines. These might of been culls to begin with but i dont know. When exposed properly I am with John.

[david]

...never exposed to hunting properly...

I think the key to your post is the above five words. You would have to take a dog of the same breeding and same age that had spent his life sitting in a kennel and hunt the two together to really come up with a strong argument, in my simple mind.

But I am open man, this is what I want. Some real life experiences. Thanks TK

[david]

TK, you make me wonder: If the original owners of that dog had kept him and started hunting him at the same time he was ripped away from his family, I wonder if the results might have been any different? And if so, it points out a potential problem with allowing a dog to get that close to a family, if it is not going to be allowed to stay with them.

Just a thought.

Changing families and climate regions did not slow Ranger down at all, but he was moving from one hard hunter to another hard hunter, so who knows.

I have known dogs that refused to hunt for certain people. In fact I knew a dog that would not hunt even with his master if a certain individual was in the truck.

[Justin Ryder]

Keeping a dog inside isn't for the dog's benefit .. it's is something the owner prefers and maybe needs .

Inside vs Outside isn't something you will ever see clear differences ... because the deciding factor is what happens when they are in the woods and how often .

My dogs are every bit as spoiled and bonded with as any that live inside .. but I hunt pretty regular and in some rough weather and my dogs perform more serious and consistant when they are used to it ... that much i have proven to myself.

This pup was raised outside , hauled to work daily and exposed to as much as possible ... and even living outside bonded enough and was handled enough to show like this on her own ... show me an inside pup that is further along .

[Justin Ryder]

Another outside pup with more time invested and a better bond than 99% of inside dogs ...

[david]

Justin, those are extremely beautiful dogs, and I have rarely seen puppies stand that well.
But I will confess an honest exchange in my mind. All this time I was wondering what in the world kind of game you hunted that you had to be that worried about conditioning your dogs to such an extreme? I knew it had to be either coyote or bear. Bobcat maybe, but even they are not that demanding. If those are AKC Black and Tans, it explains a lot for me. Beautiful dogs and I wouldn't mind having one some day because I would love to just stare at it, but you might want to try a breed that was not bred for show. You will worry less about conditioning for hunting purposes.

[Justin Ryder]

They are nowhere near AKC blooded ...

[Justin Ryder]

this is the pup on the porch all grown up.

[Justin Ryder]

[Justin Ryder]

Before ...




after

[david]

They are nowhere near AKC blooded ...

That is really good news. Had me scared. Some folks have recently asked where they can find some good Black and Tans. Now we know!

[Justin Ryder]

Every argument about dogs has already been played out and then some ...I don't care about inside vs outside or inbred vs outcross or the status quo of justifying that someone with an indoor dog is treeing game or someone with an outside dog isn't ...

I wanna know what someone has found that is new .. or the " why" ... or something that isn't such old news ... or a better way to articulate what we know but have a hard time explaining.

I know why I want my dogs outside and exposed to the elements and it doesn't make their genetics or talent any better or better than an indoor hound ... it stimulates them to be better prepared mentally for the elements and physically so that when it's go time .. it's go time .

[david]

I wanna know what someone has found that is new .. .

I dont know exactly why, but I have a hard time believing that statement. call me a skeptic.