lion hunting curs? breeders specialty?

[displacedwaterfowler]

Hello all and thank you for this great site! I have been reading for some time and recently joined. I have run field trial Labradors most my life but have grown tired of the country club setting and people. I have now turned my ambitions to lion hunting and started my search for a good lion dog/s. I have decided on curs rather then hounds due to the noise a hound makes and the belief that curs will be more familiar to me than a Hound coming from a Labrador guys view point.
I was hoping you all could derect me to a few breeders that breed curs for lions specifically? Type and appearance are not much concern but would like to start out with the best cur for the job at hand, lions! Not that I'd be upset to bag a bobcat if they found one or a bear if the CDOW ever pulls there head out of there ars and let's us run bear again. But I'm not interested in a coon/squirrel dog. Anyone know of a good lion specific cur breeder? Or have any input as to what cur breed would be best? I am in colorado and will hunt the mountains mostly on foot. I also like the romantic idea of cold nosed dogs that I could follow for days and camp in the woods with and pick up the trail in the morning if needed.
Thank you all,
Jake.

[Old dog]

kemmer stock. stryker blood if you can get it. blondie/nugget works good. I plan on a litter this spring but no telling how many she will have. she is real heavy in nugget and I am breeding her to a male that is 3/4 stryker the rest blondie/nugget. I am keeping all the females but may have a male. or you can log on to allthinskemmer.com or ksba.com lots of breeders there and a few that breed for big game. good luck and happy hunting. p.s. said something about the noise a hound makes??? well I hate to be the one that breaks the news to you but.....kemmers bark too.lol mine are mostly bawl mouth or bawl/squeal/chop but all are loud

[Kevin Jackson]

Jake, I've been looking too. Found some pups that have a lot of Kemmer and the Nugget stuff. They are in Missouri and the parents are coon/squirrel dogs. They'll work just fine out here I think. Remember they all came from coon/squirrel dogs before any came out here to chase cats. My hounds all go back to coonhounds. In fact they are pretty good coonhounds too. They catch most every cat I turn loose on. Not trying to be negative but don't let romance override reality. A good smart pup from good tree dog stock will run whatever you train it to. We're going to try one of the pups I told you about. If you want the guys info I can get it to you. Best of luck to you.

[Old dog]

kevin not to start a pissin match but if you research the kemmers you will find out that Robert kemmer bred and used his stock of dogs for the hog hunting outfitting business he had. also bear as well as coon and squirrel.since that time, breeders have lined out on different dogs to produce just about any style of dog you want from silent to open and close to long range. you just have to decide what trait suits you and someone in the kemmer world will point you in the direction to find a line suited for you. but they didn't all used to be just coon and squirrel dogs.

[displacedwaterfowler]

Thanks fellas! Old dog I'll absolutely look into those sites! and I know that all dog bark and in the woods i would not care one bit. but it's that very specific 3 second long unmistakable hound bark ( and howl) I would like to avoid haha for a few reasons, but formost is I live in a town called ( and it makes me sick to say this) boulder colorado witch is a liberal shit storm to say the least and hounds draw out the hippies like you would not belive! My cousin has blue ticks and that bark in this town is asking for trouble he has got alots of shit from the libs ( some hippies tried to "rescue" his dogs from his yard once) as where these people would think a cur is just a common rescue dog ( like camo to hide from the libs haha).
Kevin, I know that most come from coon dogs but was wondering if anybody knew of a lion specific breeders that has a few generation of good cat hunters behind them. I'v found that with labs ( apples to oranges I know) that breeders that breed for/from trial dogs make better trial dogs then breeders that breed waterfowl labs can produce, if that makes sence. I sure wouldn't mind talking to the fella your talking about and even more interested in how your new pup works out for cats.
I'v read that some lepards are bread for lions? But I have not had any luck tracking down any big game breeders, any info on any of them?
Thanks again fellas I am a bit out of my element here so far but learning fast and more every day. Your input in priceless and appreciate!
Jake.

[Kevin Jackson]

Old dog, no pissing match here. I've never owned a cur but from what you yourself said the Gold Nugget stuff works good. Just trying to help this man out. The pups I found have quite a bit of that blood. I'm not making any claim of being an expert. I bet the one we get will do just fine. If you want Jake I can PM you the guys name and # also there is a guy up in the Kalispel, MT area by the name of Nick Riley that raises some nice Leopards. I bought a pup from him and he was a pretty decent young dog. He's on this forum. Good luck to you.

[Old dog]

no problem kevin. another guy that breeds for lion is bill fry in cali. or his son garett fry. I have got several dogs from them and they all liked lion. actually my best dog came from them. you are spot on about the liberals not noticing the dogs. I get to watch the reaction at least once a week when some liberal tourist comes thru and my dogs are in the back of my truck. it never fails lol it goes like this, "those sure some pretty dogs and so well behaved" can I pet them? what kind are they? that's when I drop the bomb lol soon as I say they are hunting dogs the liberals almost trip over themselves backing away lmao.

[david]

Jake, I will give you my experience regarding Kemmers and cats. I have hunted many kemmers and omcba curs on cats. I enjoy them a ton. But I have never seen one that would grind out a tough track unless they knew I was involved. When I hear about real cold nosed kemmers that grind out tough tracks, and I dig a little deeper, I usually find out that some one is coming along on horseback or whatever. Or maybe it is paired with a hard grubbing hound, or it is a halfbreed or quarter breed with a hound. I must be from Missouri the show me state, because I would absolutely love to see a kemmer that would grind out a long hard track on it's own, but it is so contrary to my experience, that I won't believe it till I see it with my own eyes. I am sure someone will be offended that I would admit that. But I have tried and tried to believe it. But when I am alone in the dark and it is just me and God, and I know if I lie to him, he already knows it, and he asks me if I believe there are cold nosed kemmers who will grub out a tough track on their own, I just hang my head and admit that I am not a believer.

And what is even worse than that: if He flew me to a mountainside and said "now look and listen, and I seen a pretty blonde cur with a lot of ear, just pounding out a tough lion track with his bawl mouth. I would beg Him to tell me where it is that curs get so much ear, and what dog in the whole wide world could possibly give them a bawl mouth? And I would say that yes, I do believe that a mixed bred hound/ cur can pound out a tough track. In fact the best cold tracker I have personally known was a hound/ cur mix.

So any way, enough of my struggles with beleif:
I would definately suggest you get your cur from people who are cold tracking lions with them. Do the research, spend a couple extra bucks, go see the dogs hunt if you possibly can, see if the dog will do it without constant back-up. If you find that, I say a little hound blood goes a long ways, and if you want to hunt lion, you should welcome it. Give yourself the boost of confidence actually seeing your pups parents do it will bring. You are about to spend a lot of money on an expensive sport, you are doing right by researching this thing. Kevin already has wonderful cold nosed hounds. Any good cur will add a ton of fun to his experience. You, however, are in a very different position than he is.

If you are interested in leopards, I will tell you their problems also. But there is a top leopard breeder near Denver.

[Old dog]

david. yes I have heard people say that if a cur has a bawl mouth or a cold nose then it has hound in it. or any time they see a cur do a outstanding job then it has hound in it. and maybe so. I truly don't know and never will. david is correct about grubbing a track as far as trailing for hours alone. if you go along with them they will grub farther for sure. I do think their is some bird dog in the mix and probably hound also and maybe even a collie to boot but put it all together ,,they call them kemmer stock. some are harder headed than others and some are colder track minded than others. I have spent countless hours with cold nosed hounds grubbing tracks that never get treed and I mean countless. I have only had the curs for 8 or 9 years and I can tell you I have not spent any wasted time on tracks that they cant jump. surely you can find hounds that will start a colder track I have seen that for sure. so its kind of like horses and mules I guess.a horseman will tell you a mule aint worth feeding and if you have a "good horse" he will do what a mule will do and the same with a mule guy. so do you're research and what ever you decide just put the time in the dog and you will be happy.

[Jeff Eberle]

Old dog , I'd say you hit the nail on the head. Bottom line is if you like it feed it.

[Varminator]

X2 David!! They're Hell on wheels once they know it's Near!(warm or Hot Track) Or until the hounds start pulling away. JMO

Skip, you know I wish you the best!! You should know this Winter if they are what "You" want???

[displacedwaterfowler]

Oh man... Ok let's not start the cur vs hound thing. I get that a hound is a hound and was made for tracking so it most likely has the upper hand in the cold nose department...BUT the topic at hand is curs bred for or that do very well for hunting lions. Not looking for the best hound for lions or breed for lions but the best CUR BREEDING fo hunting lion.
I do appreciate the info, I truly do but let's please stick to good lion curs thanks.
Jake

[Old dog]

jake with that being said, the only curs I keep track of are kemmers so like I said I would look at blondie or nugett or the mixture of the two. also there is other strains of mountain curs but I don't keep up with the breeding. stephens stock is also a stock worth looking at as well as the leapords .good luck in you're search. as for you varminator,,,I know you wish me the best but you should know that I will keep messing with the curs till I have what I want . I may be there now??the trick I want to pull is to catch it before it """"pulls away'''''''lol

[Varminator]

Sorry! I was saying that Skip has been looking and trying to find the same thing you are, in a different way. Without saying I have been around many different types, don't waste your time looking. If you are hunting it with Hounds they most always quit and come back. The curs he has now seem to stay in a hard race a little longer and they Dance thru the Rocks. Skip won't really know till this winter what kind of track they will take and Stay on. He put them on Bear this year and they hung with his buddy's dogs.
They also seem to be a windy type dog and learned to Strike Off the Box very quick!!

[david]

[quote="Old Dog]what ever you decide just put the time in the dog and you will be happy.[/quote]

Oh man, do I ever wish life and dogs had been that simple for me. If it was, I would still have the dogs I started out with. Because I definately did my research, and I definately put the work in. Wouldn't that be true of you Skip? Would you say the dogs you are sorting through now are quite a bit different than the ones you started sorting through in your youth?

Jake, keep on digging deep, as you are doing. We wish you the best, and let us know how it is going out there.