Deer breaking with scent pad

[macedonia mule man]

Has anyone ever had success with deer breaking scent used as it is recommended, on collar scent pad. Do they stay broke? How long do you leave it on, do you leave it on while hunting ? How often do you soak scent pad? Has anyone had good success using it anyway else?

[FullCryHounds]

Don't waste your time or money. Nothing better then the real thing.

[twist]

Called tri-tronics used at the right time! Andy

[Msbobcat]

Don't waste your time or money. Nothing better then the real thing.

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Those dogs look like they wanna go inside the house!!!

[macedonia mule man]

Fellows, I can break tree type dogs fairly easy with train collars but I taking too much hunt out of running dogs with it. Iv had several good prospects quit hunting altogether with collar on and I'm not overdoing it. Does anybody else in running dog have this problem?

[Goose]

Macedonia mule man have you tried john wicks trash breaking techniques, I bought both of his books and they are helpful for dog training all the together.

[pegleg]

Messing with scents can be a two way street. No one really knows what a dog is taking from the experience. I could list several different failures. But instead deer glands in a hot wire box is about the only one that hasn't back fired. The same can be said for shock collars. I had a horrible mess once and the collars did nothing to halt it. To this day I don't do much looking for deer to dump young dogs on to trash break. I'm not sure its the wisest course with some dogs. I think some pick up on you avoiding them better.
I've never hunted deer with hounds and support it like any hound sport. But I do wonder how many deer get caught by hounds. Typically I would say if your dogs are shutting down over trash breaking your hurrying the process to much or they aren't seeing enough game before and during. Granted some dogs are more stubborn then others. I spend more time controlling young hounds and not letting them hunt for themselves as much. They get called back until a broke dog strikes. Its just like everything else though each pack and each hound handle differently. The age you start them the breeding the type and much more has bearing on what works.I don't get real heavy handed until they've seen enough good game and/or they are getting close to catching off game. If you can control or affect their hunt drive like you say either they don't have enough drive or more likely just adjusting your approach somehow will work getting them bent enough to continue hunting with no major mishaps long enough they realize just what the rules are.

[driftwood blue]

Goose has gave some of the best advise there with the Walk With Wick books.
and Pegleg gives some more good stuff...there are a lot of "breaking scents out there--some are nothing more than urine based and that is not really the scent the dogs run.. most do not work.
he also mentioned the breeding behind the dogs--- some lines tend to be more prone to running deer..

[macedonia mule man]

Driftwood, what scent do you think dogs are running musk scent or body scent?

[driftwood blue]

seems to me like it is more the combination---- shoot,If I could smell the track I would not need the dang hounds!

you can dang sure break a hound from deer by using the glands from the hocks from the deer--- But I bought one female back in the early 80's that would trail cold scent of a deer---track for track. she could surely smoke a hot track--- the fellow that was peddling her said she would not run a deer.--she died one night when she caught one!

My personal preference is to use glands and the electric fence method mentioned by John Wick at 3-5 months old-- it is called prevention.

[pegleg]

I think deer are one of those animals whose glands more or less over power their body scent. I could very well be wrong and a hound might be picking something else out. But watch a young dog explore a deer bed. They stick that nose right in the bottom middle where the legs are . horses don't smell much different then their chestnuts. And other then very young dogs I've never seen a dog try and trail one by its actual tracks. And even they quickly realize its not required even on older tracks. Cattle seem a little different if its hot out dogs can wind them from miles but on cold days they get confused a bit on the first few they try finding. I haven't ever seen a cowdog breed really puzzle a cold weather track but hounds I know have pretty good noses I've seen act like it was a mystery. I can't say I've ever seen a hound trail a javelina but I've sure seen them cut into them from along ways off. I've always wondered over the discription of trailing the horse in meet Mr grizzly. I haven't ever seen a hound really show it was trailing a horse by any behavior no matter how old the track . they seem to be able to do it nearly asleep. Of course I don't think I've ever had a dog trail a real old horse track either.

[southern fox]

I have used hounds to hunt deer years ago here we can use them legally, what a dog smells trailing or running a deer is between his toes , open hoof up spreading them wide and between the hoofs is a hole not exzactly between them up just a little from between them , get u a small stick and stick it in there it will go a long way mabe 4 inches, pull it out and see , its a waxy looking kinda stuff u can smell it to , its very strong, as for deer breaking , I believe just what some of the others have said , Breeding is the key, I use running dogs, I breed my own , they do not run deer , most wont run them from the start , if u use a hot collar be very careful with it , I use it at last resort , I am as scared of it as a rattlesnake cause u can ruin one real quick with it ! I have to know 100% he is wrong no guessing , if u have a broke dog , something to tell on him with , that will work , then fry him till he under truck or in it, toning at same time , he will be jaded a touch after that but u keep pouring it to him he will get better real quick , then all u got to do is use tone button or truck horn , if u don't have a tone button use truck horn to replace tone button , I usually do this at home in pen then a lot of times there is no shocking envolved in the woods , usually just truck horns

[dwalton]

Everyone has their opinion as how to break a dog from trash each one works for them and the type of dog they hunt . As said some hard headed dogs can be hard to break while a soft dog can be ruined from use of electricity. I have seen running dogs as well as leopard curs set back from miss use of electricity. If one tone trains a dog you may never have to use electricity on it. Start the pup at 3 or 4 months old with a 30 foot check cord, treats and tone collar on it. With the early basic training I have dogs that have never had electricity used on them for trash breaking. One should never try to trash break a dog until it has been on enough good game to know what you want it to run. One will also have a lot more trash trouble if you run more than one spieces of game. Each to their own but realize that what works for you, the type of game you run and the type of dog you run may not work for the next guy. Also timing is very important, the age a dog is worked, type of dog, type of game, your knowledge and your disposition. Good hunting and remember we make our own good luck. Dewey

[mike martell]

I switched to the vibrate mode and like it better than tone...You have a dog that needs simple correction and you tone the dog, I find if other dogs are close they too think they are being corrected as well. Mine are all vibrate- tone broke along with voice command and seldom require shocking at any time for any reason. They are all running dog cross and very sensitive to shocking, so I use that option sparingly.

I do as Dewey mentioned with my young dogs, they handle well before leaving the kennels...I also find when you hunt your hounds lose on the rig deck with the young dogs included, you most likely will never need to correct a young dog off of trash if they are bred correctly for the intended game, or minimally because they become accustom to looking for nothing but cat tracks with the start dog at the same time...

My young dog is in constant company of solid broke hounds that do nothing but look for cat tracks when they rig a track, been hunting bobcats in the mule deer winter grounds and with the snow rained off, I free cast a lot, This young dog knows nothing but cats. Garmin makes it so easy to monitor the hounds and no reason to get in a hurry to correct a dog.

To me, the bigger picture as a handler, you are allowing every dog an equal chance to find the track and making start dogs in the process, repetition and exposure are the key ingredients to making solid hounds...Hunting alone is the best way to keep and maintain trash free hounds.

Like previously stated, hunt however you think works best...This is just how I hunt / handle my dogs. Good luck!

[al baldwin]

Sound advice Mike Martell. When I first started hunting hounds at a young age did not care what they ran as long as they were after something. Then when I started hunting in Oregon as a teenager was told by some this or that line of dogs were almost impossible to trash break. And the way I went about trying to trash break them, hunting young dogs in trashy company, I believed them. After a few years I wised up a bit, refused to hunt young dogs with trash runners & discovered the reason those lines were almost impossible to trash break was because they were allowed to get started on trash then the breaking began. Habits in dogs are as hard, or harder to break than bad habits in people. The best way to train hounds that are a pleasure to hunt 99.9% of the time is never let those young hounds develope those bad habits. Each dog can have it/s own personality and one must learn to read those and do his best to help them along. I have never trained a dog that I believed was not capable of making a fool of me if I bragged on them, but have sure trained some that were very reliable to have many trash free hunts, when hunted along or in trash free company. Just my experience & wish you the best Muleman. Al