Bobcat Jump Style

[dhostetler]

Most of my jumped cats are treed in under 5 minutes. Are your cats caught on the ground within 5 minutes of the jump? My theory is if you are running a jumped cat that ducks and dodges, that cat is not getting enough pressure to make it climb. So the longer it ducks and dodges the more likely it will screw up. Also the longer it ducks and dodges it becomes an endurance race and I have no doubt that dogs are tougher than cats, eventually the cat becomes so exhausted it just gets caught. I still have strong doubts that a bobcat can be out run by hounds on the first initial sprint.

[dhostetler]

I am pretty sure my dogs can't hit 30 miles per hour

http://www.ask.com/pets-animals/fast-ca ... 69c6a22528

[1bludawg]

This is something i've seen with my own dogs when catching a cat on the ground that may give you something to think about.On rare occasions they'll just flat out run one down but usually when they're putting the pressure on one he'll start twisting and turning ,ducking and dodging and even lay down (have saw them do it).While he's sneaking around in the midst of a pack of cat hounds he has the bad luck to run into one of the searching hounds.........the fight is on !This is how some get caught .Personally i like a dog that runs a cat like they're tied to it .They get in his back pocket and make him climb . I don't like a wide swinging hound but when paired with a close running dog they can be deadly on cats .Have also seen a pack of wide swinging dogs that caught a lot of cat .As individuals they swung to wide to tree many cat alone but as a pack they were awesome .They could and did tree cat consistently even in summer time conditions.

[merlo_105]

I think like David and Mark said you'll have different results with different dogs. I have two that live for catching on the ground. I have seen a few cats get caught trying to out run the one. One Cat I watched her catch by herself tried to just out run her Cat and dog came across the road with the dog 2' behind just about rolling it in the road. About rolled the cat three times in totall till Cat got caught. Cat just ran around the truck crossing 100 yards in front and 75 yards behind. 3 weeks ago I caught one that just about got ran down. All dogs watched it Clime, treed right along side road. Front dog came off the road bank trying to whip a 180 in air feet landed made two jumps back up bank sat down treed

[dhostetler]

In hound hunting it is a lot easier to prove myths wrong such as Grizzlies can't be treed or Lynx are harder to tree than bobcats than it is to prove that something can't be done, you can always fall back on the theory of lack of dog power.

Back to the original question are bobcats on the ground caught within 5 minutes of the jump?

[mike martell]

Mike,

When I get pictures of a wolverine treed over my dogs, is when I will consider to have reached the pinnacle of success in the hound hunting world. It has been done but so far my races have ended in the vet clinic.

Now you're speaking my language Duane....The ultimate trash race...I can tell you a wolverine can and will tree, you're already one up on the pros who have straight bobcat hounds because only our style trash runners go astray(necessary requirement)........I can also tell you a wolverine will stay treed or leave just as he chooses, he will also poop anyplace in the woods he chooses and your hounds or mine ain't gonna very much about it!

I and a young aspiring guide was summoned to a chicken coop scenario where it was determined the chicken killing bandit culprit to be a lynx...........................Quote from Waylon Jennings.........WWWWWRRRRROOOOONNNNNGGGGGG!
You think a bobcat dog can swing too wide? Dogs fleeing for there lives make swings way way wider! If a hound found it in it's heart to run a bobcat as hard as a hound fleeing a wolverine? We would be reading more about catching them bobcats on the ground!

I'm pretty sure!

Mike

[david]

I hunted cats a lot of years and never caught one on the ground. Heard stories about guys that did but had never seen it with my dogs. The stories i heard about were all of guys that just hunted bobcats and i ran all tree game with my dogs. FWD to 1994 and Oregon's ban on bear and lion with dogs and other problems that fall on a lot of hounds men i made the decision to sell out. A few years went by and i decided to get back into dogs and went with straight cat bred dogs from straight cat hunters and a few dogs from a varmint hunter. 3 years ago i ran a tally and 18% of the cats caught were on the ground. Caught not holed. Is it the cats or the dogs that made the difference?

Just some tunnel enlarging tools if you ever need them.

If all your bobcats tree in five minutes, why do you bobcat hunt? Coon hunting might be more exciting. If you hunt for the fur, I have nothing against that, but traps would be way cheaper to feed.

Some animals are "caught" when they make a decision to stop, and the dog trails into them and either engages them or barks at them. Other animals are "caught" not by any choice of their own.

[david]

I am pretty sure my dogs can't hit 30 miles per hour.

I realize bobcats have a tremendous sprint. I have never seen one sprint for a mile in snow. It leads me to think they cannot do it.

I also think silent dogs are overrated. If you need silent dogs to up your success rates then you probably don't have bobcat dogs to start with.

Or your bobcats don't tree in five minutes.

If it seems like I'm picking on you, It is because I am a little bit.

Whenever I see a post like the one above which seems like an insult directed at someone whose bobcat problems are completely unknown to the poster, I don't know why, but it makes me want to pick on them a little.

Another one of my faults.

Sounds like your dogs are exactly what you need for where you live. You should be very proud of them. I know I would be. It has been over ten years since I have had anything that would even be a shadow of what you have. You are blessed and have worked hard to get there. You are to be commended.

[julio25]

First an foremost, I want to tell you guys that enjoy reading what yall put up here and seldom read any of the other sections.

The areas where we find cats here on the coast of NC are usually so thick you cant even fall down in them. Green and black running briars, cat claw briars, reed beds and young pine thickets so tight that you can stick your hand out in front of you and not be able to see it.

I dont know of anyone here that uses any tree stock for hunting cats. 99.9% of the hunters here run straight running hounds and run both cats and fox with the same bunch of dogs. With most guys hunting 10 - 15 dogs at a time. Sometimes more.

Seems to me (and i am by no stretch of the imagination an expert) that the majority of cats here get caught on the ground. I would say 60 - 70%. Some people more, some people less. A cat race here is ducking, dodging, twisting and turning race. Seems like the only time a cat gets in a straight line is when the dogs make a big miss and the cat can get out from under them. I have only run one cat in a hole but have talked to a few people that have put them in holes or log piles. Most of them try to duke it out on the ground. Why? I dont know if they feel like they can duck, dodge and squat enough in the thick to get away or if it is another reason.

[merlo_105]

David, How's that Sonny dog doing? I hunted with him a few times and he acted like a good young prospect. He sure has had his fair share of seeing game on the ground. Little sticky on track, but sure looked like he was going to be a promising tree dog. Just wondering. And wondering if your still running dogs

[david]

Thanks for asking. I was without him for six months at a key period if his life. Just got him back. First thing he did was run a lion very poorly. Second thing he did was run a deer herd pretty well.

Was not good for him to be layed up.

He is extremely gifted at a couple things and very weak at one important thing. He is fascinating. In areas where bobcats are suppose to be easy he makes them look hard. In an area where bobcats are supposed to be nearly impossible he made them look easy.

He is fascinating and I wish I could study him full time.

[dhostetler]

David, Yes my comment about silent dogs was probably taken as an insult. I realize when I post on here disagreeing with the consesus of other hunters I am opening myself to all kinds of comments. I actually like debates as long as it doesn't degenerate into name calling. My brother lives in another state and is more liberal minded, it can go over a year without me seeing him and within 5 minutes we are in some kind of hour long debate about pretty much any subject.

Not all my bobcats are caught within 5 minutes after the jump. Nobody has yet answered my question if bobcats caught on the ground are caught within 5 minutes after the jump. I also wonder in heavy brush if you guys can tell for sure when one is jumped. My dogs have have a changeover in voice from trail to jump and obviously in speed.

Yeck last weekend I couldn't even catch an overnight track lion.

Once in talking with Art Ragsdall, I mentioned how hound hunters make broad statements about hound hunting and declare that is irrefutable facts. He agreed saying years ago he was guiding an Arkansas client on a lion hunt. The client told him that bobcats can not be caught in Arkansas. He took his dogs to Arkansas turned on a bobcat and said he never seen anything like it, it just ran flat out for miles, he thought he was running trash, the dogs finally caught it. He said he caught one every day while in Arkansas but every race was a long hard running race. Art catches quite a few bobcats on the ground in Oregon, according to the videos he sends me but I always thought it seems these bobcats are not caught in the initial jump sprint.

[david]

I have never caught a bobcat on the ground in five minutes.

If you think that means your dogs will catch bobcats on the ground if your races would just last 25 minutes, I will give you an educated guess that you are wrong about that. Your dog is from the top most coon hound breeding. I have hunted with both sides of your dogs pedigree. Those dogs do not catch coons on the ground nor do they catch cats on the ground, if their breeding is pure. They are being obedient to hundreds of years of genetic development by breeders who were developing hounds to not spoil the chase by catching the game.

[david]

The chase was king for centuries.
"Chase loudly but don't catch" is really some of the most advanced genetic manipulation I can think of. It is about as far from wolf-like behavior as you can get. Untold millions spent on this by kings and nobility.

[dhostetler]

Then why do my dogs catch lions on the ground?

I have pictures from the previous owner of my now deceased walker of coons caught on the ground. I have heard your theory before but i tend to disagree. Treeing Walkers come out of the running walker line supposedly running walkers were bred not to catch however running walkers seem to be a favorite of coyote hunters and a lot of west coast bobcat hunters. Selective breeding got treeing into the running walker line, why can't the run to catch be also selective bred in? I have run numerous Plotts supposedly have a 300 year history of breeding to catch, why does the walker blood in my dogs do a lot better in catching than any Plott I seen running.