DRy ground training.

[Mike Leonard]

Question; at which point do you turn 'em loose and let them track what they've struck on? Once on a track that you want them to run, do you still keep calling them back [ if so, by which technique ] so you can keep-up on foot, or, do they get to run the race and you break out the telemetry?

Also, whats "cluck" mean? To just point your finger to a spot on the ground and ask the dog to work the spot with it's nose? I can get my dogs to work an area like this, but, one pup has a lot of sawdust in his blood, and will start running a ghost track just cause he thinks I want


Response:

#1. I keep them close enough that I can get to them quickly and make sure it is the desired game and that they are starting the track the right direction. With lion more than any other animal but it can happen with cats as well but not nearly as often because bobcat scent is so light and doesn't last very long. Lion scent is heavy and can last a long time, but many times the dogs will take the track the way they come into it and you have to turn them around. This does not mean you have faulty dogs it is just the nature of lion scent and nearly all dogs on bare ground will at times run the lion track backwards, and you never catch anything that way.

#2. Clucking is the same as hissing them . Pointing to a track and asking them to gear up and really going to smelling and see if they can get enough of it to start working. As i said however too much encouragement can get an over eager dog telling lies and messing with ghost tracks. So it is best to get them over the area first and see if they can detect any of it. The old pro dog that knows this routine is usually your double checker on these deals.

[Buddyw]

Mike, I think you missed his question.. Or at least you missed mine!..

I'm curious When they start moving the track are you able to control the speed at which they are running it..

I control the distance as to how up the road or trail they stay around me when we are searching for a track.. And I can turn them around if I find they are backwards.. But once they start moving it.. Most of the time I'm out of the game.. (Let's just pretend for a second that it's not a coyote or elk! )

[Spokerider]

If you don't get em on a cat this summer take the first snow day of the winter. In fact go the next day. in 24 hrs cats will make a lot of tracks. Find a fresh track , follow it with the dogs, this could go for a few miles. Your dogs will know what your following and if you pay attention to your dogs they will let the you know when your close. Let em go. I found its best to let em go on a younger cat , the old cats can teach your dogs a lesson in a hurry. Maybe take a trip to the interior for a week in December.

I've got nearly all of Dec booked off and set aside for hunting I learned the importance of being out in the new snow from the night before, last winter. Once my dogs "get the idea" of what I want them to chase, and they get a cat or two under their belt, I'll make the trip to the mainland to hunt cat. I usually hunt moose in the interior, but haven't done any cat hunting there yet.

Mike, how do you know when your dogs are running a lion track backwards on dry ground?
I'm not sure of the terrain you're running in.....open and dusty dirt? rimrock?.....around here, you'd be hard pressed to see any cat track on dry ground once off the dusty logging road and into the thick foilage / mossy rocks. Do you watch for signs of the dogs struggling with an ever-decreasing scent trail, and then decide that you're prolly running it backwards?

[Spokerider]

Mike, I think you missed his question.. Or at least you missed mine!..

I'm curious When they start moving the track are you able to control the speed at which they are running it..

I control the distance as to how up the road or trail they stay around me when we are searching for a track.. And I can turn them around if I find they are backwards.. But once they start moving it.. Most of the time I'm out of the game.. (Let's just pretend for a second that it's not a coyote or elk! )

Buddyw,
The terrain you run in is going to be very similar to the terrain I hunt.....I'm curious, how close or far out do you like to range your dogs when searching for a track?
"Once they start moving the track, you're out of the game" Therein lies the fickle part of it all......wanting to keep the dogs ranging close, yet open and run a track to tree, hoping it's the correct game! Guess we can't have it bothways.... That was kinda my question to Mike L., once on a scent, do you just let them run, or,do you try to control the *rate* of the race to the tree?

[Mike Leonard]

I'm sorry I never even thought of that as a question.

I sure wish I had supernatural powers to control the speed of these hounds once they go down a track but I don't . If I did I would say pedal to the metal you flop eared bunch of flea bags and quit wasting time cus i want that lion in a tree quick! Like right now! so I don't miss Oprah!! LOL!

The only control I have over their speed on a track is by picking the strain of dogs that move it the way I like a dogs to. Problem with them sportsd car types I like when they get on the wrong thing(oh and occasionaly they do...LOL!) holy crapoli! can they flat get out of the country.

Had a guy with me one time and he was pretty green to the hound game. Well my two big pups struck hard and left out screaming and man did they make the canyons ring, they were flying. As they started to fade out of hearing he looked at me and said. Mike i just can't beleive a lion will be able to stay ahead of them dogs very long as fast as the are going, cuz lions are suppose to be short winded. I looked back at him and said Charlie look behind you and tell me what you see. He looked back and there was an old blue female and an old redtick female setting there looking very innocent and avaiding any direct eye contact. Well it's old Belle and old Jessie what are they doing setting there with us? I said they are enjoying the sound of that race from a safe postiion. He said what do mean by that? I said you just wait until that elk makes a bit of a circle and I get up pretty close to them and you will understand what they know perfectly. LOL!

[Buddyw]

Mike.. Just making sure I wasn't missing anything cause there definately are times when I would like Slow motion button. Most of the time it's to confirm what I already know, but am too naive to believe it, those are normally the times that I'm telling the person I'm with.. we just passed 10 different deer, elk, and coyote tracks.. No way did my dogs pass all that to run trash!!

Spokerider, Yea sounds like the Same terrian. For me I really have been tring to hunt exactly the same in snow as I do without.. (If you call it hunting, Some people call it trash breaking.. ) That way I can check the dogs and give them Every oppurtunity to mess up when I can catch it. When there isn't snow, it's a pain in the ass.. I normally don't get to see a track.

So far the only indication I've noticed.. is if my little Pup wants to eat the Crap.. If she Eats the Crap.. it's consistantly been Cat crap.. If she doesn't eat the crap.. Well that normally hasn't been a Cat..

[TomJr]

Readable lion tracks in the terrain I hunt are hard to come by, heck most times I can't even see that anything but dogs passed that way. But Deer do leave better tracks than lions and other smaller game on the hill sides so if I don't see any hoof prints in there I figure they have it right. Been fooled a few times, saw some deer tracks and called my dogs off a lion Because I only hunt a few canyons around my house I have a very narrow defination of "trash". I let them run everything but deer and javalina so as long as I don't see any freesh hoof tracks on their path I am happy with them. This morning I was out with my pup Jake and he did jump up 2 deer realy close and I thought he was going to go and I was ready for it! But he just started shaking all over, whined abit and stayed on the trail with me. I would almost say he was broken off deer but that might be inviting a big trash race tomorrow...

[krk hunting]

MIKE,

I HEAR ALOT OF GUYS THAT SHOCK THEIR YOUNG DOGS OFF ANYTHING THEY STRIKE IF THEIR OLDER DOGS ARE NOT IN ON THE CHASE RIGHT AWAY OR STRIKE FIRST. WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHT ABOUT THAT? DO YOU THINK IT BREAKS THEIR DESIRE TO STRIKE.

KEVIN

[cecil j.]

I do not believe in turning in but 2 hounds and this is one good reason WHY ! A 4 yr old hound should be absolutely dead broke too cat & bear and if he brakes track for noises of trash that is inthere same places/ hes not needing an overhaullen that shows him whos the boss/ YOU not him !If he gets caught in the act because you set him up for it and your hideing close at hand and step out in his path after the trash goes by and ya work him over with a limb or branch or flushing dog whip and get him discomburberated and really wore out on the outside of the circle/ that will do it for him !I promise ya he will think ya walk on water and never do it again ! The 2 ed dog needs too be arond 3 yrs old and real clean from trash and believes totally in the older dog and you can just turn em loose too free hunt and they will go inand find a cat and it wont be back tracked/ believe it or not/ just get em broke first and then give em a little more responcibilty too look and to find the track. I stay as far away from the working dogs as I can get but accrost the next ridge and carry binoculars! Now day they make a tracken collar too and by thunder ya can get a hound ear elct. parabolic mike device too hear a long long ways! Ya can do thing un hurd of from back in the day like GPS working your way around also.
Ya know the easest way too tell a back track from a track going forewards is/ it it getting colder and colder and if ya have binuclers and can see the dogs orken/ does at any time a dog wind while hes working too move the track, never seen a cold nosed dog weind and track backwards cept when the frost melts and a cold old left track returns brand new fresh too their noses then it could presnt a problem too horse racen dogs ,but not too settled good old cold and hot tracken dogs they wont horserace nor goast run/ if they do get new ones if ya can`t get it stoped ! Why feed junk it don`t cost any more too feed a good one !Oh hell, just go get ya some 60 + yr old savy hunter too ride along who ca tell ya whats really goen onas it happens/ most smarter hunters do that ya know, that ole guy is their stock-n-trade butter on the toast for em ! He is their measureing stick !!!!

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Well put Cecil. Works everytime if you can catch them in the act.

[cecil j.]

Hey hows it oen now that the snows are goen going gone !?

[krk hunting]

cecil,

i really enjoy reading your posts but i get a hell of a headache trying to figure out what you are saying. i dont know if it is your typing or your phonics, because the yantos and aights just seem to throw me off. keep up the good work and thanks

kevin

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Hey hows it oen now that the snows are goen going gone !?

going good Cecil. 2 for 2 on bears although both were young bears. I like the young ones for training the hounds , a little less ouchy on the hounds. Should get at least one more up a tree this weekend. both bears I chased after work but know shortage of bears to chase here. I have been running the bears in great cat country so I would not be surprised to get a long tail up as well. Of couse that would be accidental as we have no chasing til september.