Starting From Scratch

[tgrschank]

I guess I'll give an update on my hounding situation. I was able to pick up a 3 month old female about 9 months ago. I work a lot with obedience and getting her not to bark at home. Also as a pup I made sure to take her on many walks up in the hills near my house. Didn't work much on scent training with her except tossing her treats on the lawn and having her search for them.

As she got a little bigger I started working on the "load up" command and started taking her on my sheep hikes looking for bighorns. She learned to scramble up rock pretty quick. I would also take her out in the flats and let her chase and track rabbits. I praised her a lot at first, then slowly praised her less and less, then started calling her off of them. Now she doesn't pay much attention to them. Once the trapping season started in November I took her along with me and let her see some grey fox in the traps. I praised her a ton while she barked at them. After seeing a few in a trap, I started releasing them. Haha she lost a lot of them at first, but slowly started to tree them. Once treed, I would praise her then get the fox to leave the tree and let her chase it again. This is what really got her hunt driven. On one of the last fox trap checks we found a cat track in one of the few snow patches from a recent storm. I let her on it and she took off. She doesn't make noise while tracking, bawls when she sees it, and chops when its treed. She took off and within a few hundred yards she was bawling, then chopping. So I would run up to her and then it would go quiet. Then bawl then chop. This happened a few times before my dog was dead tired. She was only 10 months old and hadn't ran that much.

Once bobcat season came, I got her in from of a bunch of bobcats. At first she would bark, but didn't look supper interested. Then on one cat, I walked close to it and it did its fake charge/growl thing at me and of course I jumped back. This really excited my dog and it wanted that cat. After dispatching that cat, I couldn't get my dog away from it. Even with a few other cats from that day, she was always watching that one. That got her very catty.

A couple weeks ago we were out looking for tracks because we had pulled the cat traps the week before. On our way to the snow I decided to check the canyon where we saw the track a few months ago. In the bottom of the canyon was a fresh cat track in the sand. I let the dog go and she was off. I followed the best I could and soon here the bawl, and a min later the chop. I could see her on the next saddle, with a lion in front of her. I rushed over and as soon as I made eye contact with the lion it was off, but I noticed it wasn't moving very well. It quickly treed up again and I noticed its upper arm was swollen and it wouldn't put any weight on the leg. Plus it looked pretty skinny. I praised the dog a lot, then took the dog off. This lion already looked to be struggling, and chasing it to exhaustion wouldn't have helped. I praised the dog well and we headed to the truck. I don't think she could have done it if the lion was fully healthy, but at 1 yr old and alone, I couldn't have been any happier with her.

Now my hounding drive is over the top. Its all I can think about. I found a few places with coons and will be running my dog as much as I can this spring/summer/fall. Can't wait for snow to fall again!

I have always wanted to get into hounding, but knew I couldn't handle or afford a pack of dogs, and high priced finished dogs. I read multiple article about people training their own pup and hunting with 1 or two dogs. It has taken a ton of work, lots of frustrations, lots of times telling my wife I'm going to sell the dog, and lots of exhaustion, but that has made it that much better. My dog and I still have a lot to learn, and a lot to improve on, but it is well worth it!!!!

[merlo_105]

Just perfect, Great write up thanks for filling us in. Looking forward to more stories down the road great job.

[david]

Awesome. You are of a rare breed. Keep up the good work. And keep writing great stories.

[Wade]

I only advise I can give you is that being a good houndsmen is a way of life. A lot of hard work and commitment is reguired to be successful! I would recommend to you is to find and old houndsmen and pick his brain on the sport. Only a few are successful in starting from scratch. Unfortunately there is this devise called the gps that lets you skip a lot of important steps to become a good houndsmen in my oppinion. The most important thing is that you injoy the sport and dogs and when you do that it becomes about the chase and not the kill . Finding the right breed is important there is a lot of below average dogs out there so picking a good breeder is a must for me I Pefer Plott hounds good luck Wade

[Kevin Jackson]

Don't let people talk you out of it. It's not rocket science or magic although it seems harder or less believible to a lot of people. I was 19 when I bought my first pup and bought another a year later. Everyone said I was going about it wrong and would fail. Nobody would help a kid out (cometition in their eyes) I studied all I could about hounds and laced my boots up and those pups and I both made mistakes but we wanted it bad and kept learning and within a few years we were catching game that all the guys that were not helpful couldn't. Don't ever listen to people who say you can't. Research and find the best hounds in the country you hunt and get a pup from those lines. Raise the pup with plenty of attention and make it your best buddy in the world. Spend every spare minute with the pup. Teach him to sit, come, heel, and what no means. Then take him to the woods and find your desired game and expose the pup to it as much as possible. When the pup does right give him plenty of praise. When it does wrong disipline it. Don't ever beat a dog but don't be scared to put a boot in their ass if they need it. Make it clear you are the boss and a smart pup will want to please you and seek your affection. That's where the praise for doing right pays off. Once the dog figures out what makes you happy gains your affection it'lI try it's hardest to please you. Plus the dog is bred to do it so it's a win win for the dog. If you raise a pup right and put the work in you will be catching game and a pup started and finished that way will generally be a top hound. It's damn sure not the easy way but if you're looking for easy hounds probably aren't for you. I wouldn't trade starting from scratch. You'll be miles ahead of a guy that just buys some finished dogs and goes killing cats. The best part is learning. Too many these days want to skip all the work and just go reap the rewards of someone else's hard work. I think it's great that you want to start from scratch. If I can be of any help in the advice department feel free to contact me any time. I sure don't know it all but I've been down the road you are venturing down. I have a ton of respect for a guy that isn't scared to put the work in.

[Kevin Jackson]

Ha, I didn't read all the way to the end....oops. Sounds like you are on the right track. Keep up the good work.

[david]

Ha, I didn't read all the way to the end....oops. Sounds like you are on the right track. Keep up the good work.

I am glad you didn't read the second page Kevin because that was an amazing post from the heart. Please write a few more like that and put them in a little book for beginning houndsmen. This here beginning houndsman would be the first to buy it. You were blessed with good dogs and your good dogs were blessed by you.

Did you read "Where The Red Fern Grows" back then? I thought so. They should include your book with every copy sold.

[cfanno01]

I started from scratch 4 yrs ago with a female bluetick pup...still have the dog and will until she dies. She has taught me much more than I have taught her and we r still learning together. never ran hounds with anyone till I bought my own. absolutely no experience going in. I now have a 3 yr old black and tan that started doing really well this year and a b&t walker cross pup 8 wks old. Had 12-15 good bobcat races this year but never got one. Got a couple coyotes also. The learning is definately worth starting from scratch. So glad i didnt start off with a finished dog...I dont think the bond would be as strong. To anyone out there wanting to start from scratch...please do it! Its probably the most rewarding thing Ive done. It will consume your life tho so be prepared for that.

[david]

Cfanno01, I always appreciate it when I hear about people like you, because I know how hard it is. It took you several years, and I can see why that just won't work for many people, if not most people. But I already know the depth it has built into your character. If you were not a woodsman when you started, you are now. I hope you found a lot of joy in the process.

[slobberdoc]

Great posts! I too started from scratch more than a few years ago, it's been a long, slow, hard process but worth it every step of the way. It was especially hard for me since I started with other peoples' trash, their throw-away dogs, plus a couple pups I raised on my own. I'm still learning and sometimes I don't feel like I get anywhere since I've had my best dog died too young, one of my two "free" dogs that was good ended up crippled due to an injury he had before I got him, the other free dog wasn't good at all...my pups are now 2 and 4 years old and doing decent, probably not as good as if I hunted them with experienced, trained dogs and learned from experienced hunters, but I know these dogs through and through and they catch some game and keep improving. It's so rewarding for me when they do do good, plus like others have mentioned the bond between hunter and a pup you started from scratch is incomparable. I know I've learned so much more about dogs and wildlife, walked thousands of miles in incredible country, and had more than my share of trash races and other crazy moments. No one helped me along the way except for reading this website and books, and learning from my dogs. I too would recommend it for others starting out, it's not easy but starting from scratch, if one sticks with it, will create a true houndman.

[david]

Great to hear your stories guys. I find them uplifting and encouraging. Hopefully the many who have made helpful and informative posts will find encouragement to keep on posting. We each have our flaws that make every post imperfect, but it is nice to know you found help in them.

[ethertonee]

I am similar to these other stories in a since that I started in hounds from scratch with pups and have no local people with hounds to go with about 3 years ago. I have had dogs in my life all but about 2 years since the day I was born but they were all bird dogs. I have a question for you more experienced guys. You all talk a lot about getting good dogs and getting rid of dogs if they don't pan out etc. For those of you that started this way how did you know if a dog was going to make the cut with no one to compare with or learn from. Was it game caught, the amount of fun you had or your change in perspective over time gained from experience? I was lucky enuff to hunt 3 nights with another hound this year and my dog matched up ok it had strengths the other dog didn't but they worked together ok. With bird dogs I alway had grade dogs and hunted with a couple of expensive fancy dogs that were supposed to be great. We always got more game but didn't look as facey because I didn't train for fancy I trained for results. I always felt like I had more fun as well as I was a lot less stressed if my dog didn't do something just like some book said it should or some competition rule said it should. My dogs were hunted more and worked for me much harder then these fancy competition dogs. It was easy to compare and upgrade my dogs if I would have had to. Now I am trying to move from just coon hunting to cats as well. You guys have given me some great advice weather it was just me reading your post or through direct response. I have done many things you talk about and improved my experiences and dogs as well. I wouldn't change my experience I have had and don't plan on getting rid of the dogs I have now but as I gain experience I can see I will need to work more on certain things and look for different skill sets that suit the area that I hunt compared to other areas. Would you say this is gained more from the number of pairs of worn out boots you go through or comparing how your dogs work to other dogs as you gained experience and aquantences to compare your dogs to. I do undrstand drive, the willingness to please and am starting to get an idea of this catch ability that a lot of you experienced guys talk about. What would you say is the main factor that allowed you to improve your over all experience of going hunting?

[david]

Wow, you are asking some amazing questions. I think your life with dogs has given you deep insight already.

I hope others might help me answer your questions, but I will try to tackle one of them.

I encourage people to try and understand why it is they hunt. Once you identify that main reason or even series of reasons, it will help you to answer at least one of your questions.

I think many of us hunt because we enjoy it. It seems to scratch some very deep seated itch at the core of our being. I think many on here would have been at the top of the social ladder in a society that relied soley on hunting for survival and commerce. None of us live in that type of society any more.

So to put it more simply, we hunt because we enjoy it. Most of us do not hunt for a living. If you do you will have a priority more pressing than enjoyment.

Unless you hunt or train dogs for a living all you really need to ask is "am I enjoying myself out here?" If you are, then you have all the dog power you will ever need.

Most cat hunters I have known are always hungry to improve though. And most, if not all are competitive in some way, as you are. I already know you are because of how much you enjoyed having a more effective bird dog than others.

You probably already see things you could improve on without ever seeing another dog.

But honestly, there are things you will never realize without exposure to other hunters and their dogs. The internet has already given you some of that exposure. The only thing left to do is actually go watch some other dogs work. There are top houndsmen on here that have literally left an open invitation. Some of them are not here on the board any longer. But it would be worth your time and money to invest them both in a trip to observe a man and dogs that are doing what you hope to do if you want to progress to a different level. Don't plan on bringing a dog. You probably won't be able to compare in that way, but you will still learn many things.

If you are content with your dogs and your hunting, you are to be envied above all hunters. Enjoy the peace and satisfaction and breath deep.

[cfanno01]

Ill answer the gauging of the dog question as i see it for myself...If you are happy with the dogs performance, the dog is good enough for you. I hunt alone usually so I dont care what the other guys are catching or not catching. also, when I get a pup, raise it, give it a home, I have made a commitment to her in my mind even if she doesnt turn out to be a great hunter she will stay. the only way a dog leaves my house is if it turns mean.

[South Texan]

"What would you say is the main factor that allowed you to improve your over all experience of going hunting?"

The main factor that allowed me to improve my over all experience of going hunting is when my hounds started catching the game we were hunting on a regular basis. When the hounds start catching on a regular basis they are all working together in unity without any screw-ups.