Houndspeak - say what?

[Nicole Stark]

I figure most of you guys know each other from personal relationships or a shared interest in hunting so I don't know how often you get people like me, that are relatively unacquainted with hunting circles/families who drop in.

I'm one of those people and I'm finding that despite years working with a bit of an unorthodox "hunting" dog that the language houndsmen speak is foreign to me. An example of this would be gyp. I found the definition rather amusing.

Anyway, is there possibly a reference point that might be useful in helping me understand some of what I am reading? Thankfully, I have discovered that once I learn what the terms mean, I'm fairly well acquainted with the behaviors or situations described I just don't know them by the same terms.

Also, maybe the reason for this is obvious but I've seen a number of for sale adds and notice that the pictures of the adult dogs are usually of them at the base of the tree. I presume this is just hunting custom but I feel compelled to ask, is there more to it than that?

[pegleg]

For the most part it's not any different term then other dog groups with those exceptions that are only used for hounds or their behaviors. A hound is it's genetics. So it's simpler to show it's parents at what is supposed to represent the end of a successful hunt. However i'd rather see a half hour video of it's parents working a cold track. As that's a important ability to me.

[Nicole Stark]

Fair enough, a good starting point. How do hounds people define cold tracks? Also, another example is in working (police, MWD detection, sport, SAR, cadaver, etc) we don't use the word cold nose. We simply differentiate much of what we speak about in training terms and not so much in the manner hounds are described.

I'm with you, I'd rather see the dogs working. I've had more than my share of non traditional breeds at the base of a tree with quarry in it. I guess that's why I didn't readily make a relevant connection to why I've seen so many pictures of hounds like that.

[pegleg]

Well in practice a cold track is a track of any age or condition or species that a hound is struggling to scent. It might range from 12 hours to three days or longer. There's alot of debate to be had over cold tracks. But for me I simplify it by judging my hounds behavior. If only one or two of my better dogs is making any gainful progress it's a cold track.
But then you also have those hunters who consider any track that their hounds can no longer run air scent on to be a cold track. So all these terms have to take into account who is using them and their dogs and prey along with what conditions or terrain they re hunting

[Nicole Stark]

Very interesting. I like what you said, it's a bit more relatable to me in terms of my own personal experience "judging my hounds behavior". Now I understand, at least in the broader scheme of things a bit better. Thank you.

[Nicole Stark]

But then you also have those hunters who consider any track that their hounds can no longer run air scent on to be a cold track. So all these terms have to take into account who is using them and their dogs and prey along with what conditions or terrain they re hunting

I got curious and talked with some people I know that man trail and found that while "cold nosed" isn't a term used, the reference to cold tracks in PDs/SAR for example understandably is. I inquired about the ages of some of the older tracks worked successfully and was surprised to hear the variance which went from about 28 days up to about 1 year. Evidently, there's a team up here that uses Bloodhounds (I believe I've worked my current dog with these people) that are said to have worked a trail as old as 2 years.

I realize this forum concentrates upon hunting game so my follow up post may not interest most of the membership but as far as I am concerned whether it's hunting game or man (fugitives or those lost), if it involves dogs it's all of great interest to me

[david]

Does your gyp rig? She trashy? Started? Broke? Check dog? Been tested with a sucker dog? How 'bout is she ever slick? Climb? Is she kind of coyote? A swinger? Tight? Wind locate? She ticked? Flag tailed? She a running dog? Is she ill around trees? She a pure bred cur?

Haha. I see what you mean. We might need to start a list of terms.

Feel free to ask!

[Nicole Stark]

Ask and ye shall receive, aye?

Alright, explain (if you wouldn't mind) all of it. Some of those sound like naughty terms LOL.

[david]

Well, I didn't mean ask me. Haha.

Dang.

Ok here goes:
Rigging is driving through hunting territory using the dog to indicate the presence of game from the "rig" by "striking" meaning barking because of scent.

Wow that was tough.

Trashy is a term used for a dog or person who fools around with off game, or forbidden species.

Started, Broke, and Check dog are all terms used to describe the stages of development in the training of a hunting dog. It could start a huge discussion, but I will briefly say a started dog is one that has shown the desire to trail and to catch game. A broke dog is a reliable hunting dog who will focus only on the desired game, and nothing else. A check dog is a broke dog that can not be convinced to do anything wrong by a Sucker dog, or a whole bunch of sucker dogs doing the wrong thing.

The term sucker dog was used meaning a trashy dog that is used specifically in hardening the resolve of a broke dog and hopefully turning him into a check dog.

Slick is a term used to describe an empty tree when the dog is "barking up the wrong tree". In the way used above, it is used to describe the dog that did this. "I think he is slick, get in there and find out for sure."

Climbing is another fault at the tree that game has been treed in. Dogs get injured and killed when they fall out, and game gets pushed out of the tree.

Coyote is a term to describe a shy dog that may be hard to catch or cause a bunch of other headaches like that.

A swinger does not stay tight on ground and brush scent of the passing animal. It uses the trail as an indicator of general direction to run in seeking the animal, and may be keying on airborne scent as well. Tight would be the one who stays tight on the scent trail.

A locator is generally referring to a dog that can locate stopped game in a tree or otherwise. Many dogs rely on scent on tree bark etc.for this. A wind locator can locate off airborne scent. She is especially useful for the cat family who might first touch the tree far above where a hound can place his nose.

Ticked is just a term used to describe the tiny specks of color on dogs like blueticks. It historically is a color fault for a breed like walkers.

Flag tailed was a west coast term for the long tail hairs that form somewhat of a brush. Since most west coast cat dogs were not registered, this was an indicator of a certain type of genetic line in the dog. It was desirable on the west coast.

Running dog was a west coast originated term meaning a dog with all or mostly foxhound blood, and little or no tree hound blood.

If a dog is "ill" it means they are grumpy and might want to start a fight where game is in a tree, or other situations.

Cur is a term with a long history that I won't go into right now. But lately among predator hog and fur hunters it is a dog that is not a hound. It uses eyes and ears as well as nose to do its hunting. There are many strains that have been line bred for a very long time and are anything but "mutts" as the term "cur" might imply.

There I guess that wasn't as painful as I thought it might be.

The list is not complete, and the definitions are short, and debatable in some cases.

Hopefully others will add.

[scrubrunner]

when guys out west speak of a Walker, they are referring to the Treeing Walker breed, when a guy from the east or south speak of a Walker they are referring to a foxhound breed.
Flagtailed is also a southern term, most Walker foxhounds are flag tailed, most tree hounds are not, if a hound has a flag tail I'd be inclined to believe it has foxhound in it.
A lose, check or bother is when the hound loses the scent, mostly by over running a turn when the prey changes coarse.
Babbling, loose mouth, hound barking when it does not have the scent.
Tight mouth, relative term, hound not opening as much on scent as average hound.
Opening, hound barking.
Chop, bawl, squall, squeal mouth, type of voice hound has.
Broke in broke company, means hound is trusted not to run off game alone or with other broke dogs. Probably has not been exposed to trashy hounds so reaction is unknown.

[Nicole Stark]

Humor me. I'm trying out my new language (grin).

She rigs off land or water. Striking only if she can see the big game before she starts moving out, otherwise she is mostly silent. She does make noise when she trees game but it's not like a dog, it's more bearish (guttural, huffing). She is not ill.

Absolutely a trashy dog. My choice, not necessarily hers. People might ask why, I explained that partly above. Further, well over 100 years ago these dogs were known for big game. Today most know them by nothing other than Turner and Hooch. Character is important to me. I like to push boundaries and so I didn't nail her down to any one thing and I let her run as she pleased. I went along for the thrill of watching her work.

Not slick, doesn't climb. Environmentally bomb proof. She runs pretty tight, at times it was like watching a dog move on rails, the top line barely seemed to move. It was pretty cool to watch. Probably not unlike a lot of hounds, her running speeds ran like clockwork, you could generally know what she was running and how close it was depending upon her speed.

Many Dogue de Bordeaux have some ticking on them.

That's all I got. Thanks guys for taking the time to articulate these terms.

[david]

Couple more. I have noticed that terminology can change according to location.

I have been where a "jump dog" was that exceptional cold tracker that could be used to start a faint scent trail and keep it until the game is "jumped" outnof its bed, or otherwise set to moving.

I have also heard the term jump dog used just the opposite, for the dog that excels at catching the game once jumped. But this has been the exception to the "jump dog" rule.

A dog that is "loose" on the tree is a dog that cannot be depended upon to stay at the tree the game has taken until the hunter can get there.

"barks per minute" refers to the tree and how much the dog gives voice at the tree. 120 BPM would be about the max. But big game hunters would suspect a dog like that will be too "tree minded" and would end up "false treeing" which is barking up slick trees.

For your breed it might be GHPM.
Guttural Huffs per minute.
Hopefully not 120!

[ethertonee]

I know in one of the Wick books he went through and defined a lot of the houndsmen terms. That seemed to help me understand what a lot of the people on hear were talking about at first, as I didn't grow up around hounds.