!!! The Ultimate Bobcat Dog...Part 1.5 !!!

[Dan McDonough]

By the way. I don't know the answer to the question of treeing being sex linked or not. I'm flat out cheating, or I will be with my next lurcher cross. I'll be bringing it in from both sides of the pedigree. However, making these lurcher crosses without having to have the tree gene on both sides would be immeasurably easier.

To add to the knowledge base. I will breed a female Lurcher that does not tree to a male hound that does. This will answer both questions 1 and 2 above but we all could game this out and answer it beforehand in a matter of a few posts.

[Goose]

Here’s my Kate gyp, she was born in October of 2017, her dame is a full blood registered running walker and her sire was a full blood registered Plott hound owned Mike Cauley (Cajun), I have a pile of squirrels in my yard and this little female took right to treeing them on her own, as did a male that Cajun raised, none of the other litter mates have had the opportunity to be around squirrels at free will like they had, and not just treeing by sight but I observed her work a trail all the way across the yard quite a few times, her mothers side is bred primarily for the coyote pens so there is absolutely no treeing emphasis what so ever coming from that side, I know this isn’t anything to base anything off of but she is an actual example in the flesh...


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[twist]

Mr Eberle I don't pass tracks up I turn out on any bobcat track I find and catch a high percentage of them. Are my hounds ultimate or perfect no but am I satisfied yes! Do I strive to produce dogs of equal quality yes! But to say there will be an ultimate dog that catches anywhere all the time ahead of someone else's in any conditions well ill leave that DREAM up to the dreamers and I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. It's called being realistic! Andy

[david]

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[ridgerunners]

Well, I got to jump in here too. I really don’t understand what you are trying to do either .(Dan) If you were taking a really good stud dog that performed on bobcats Exceptionally well and bred him to a gyp that Was of the same caliber. Wouldn’t you think that you would have a few puppies out of the litter that would be ultimate cat dog stock? I Think this is the way to get to the best cat dog.I am always trying to improve my hounds with the best blood I can find . Why would I want to dilute my blood with lurchers
and border collies? I also believe that the ultimate cat dogs are already developed just have to get a hold of them . It’s like a special Kentucky derby horse there are a lot of horses that run fast but only a few winners . And I feel that hounds are the same way there are many breeds of hounds that have what it takes to catch whatever game but only a few special ones are born every year. Dan i’m glad you’re at least trying to do something and not talking about it. I hope you prove us wrong and if you do develop The ultimate cat dog you can put me on the list..... Timothy Morgan

[Dan McDonough]

Well, I got to jump in here too. I really don’t understand what you are trying to do either .(Dan) If you were taking a really good stud dog that performed on bobcats Exceptionally well and bred him to a gyp that Was of the same caliber. Wouldn’t you think that you would have a few puppies out of the litter that would be ultimate cat dog stock? I Think this is the way to get to the best cat dog.I am always trying to improve my hounds with the best blood I can find . Why would I want to dilute my blood with lurchers
and border collies? I also believe that the ultimate cat dogs are already developed just have to get a hold of them . It’s like a special Kentucky derby horse there are a lot of horses that run fast but only a few winners . And I feel that hounds are the same way there are many breeds of hounds that have what it takes to catch whatever game but only a few special ones are born every year. Dan i’m glad you’re at least trying to do something and not talking about it. I hope you prove us wrong and if you do develop The ultimate cat dog you can put me on the list..... Timothy Morgan

Just seen a few things that tell me it can be done. The doing is taking a while but it's coming along. Under 10 years is my goal, but like Trump, I like to come in early and under budget.

[ridgerunners]

Here’s my Kate gyp, she was born in October of 2017, her dame is a full blood registered running walker and her sire was a full blood registered Plott hound owned Mike Cauley (Cajun), I have a pile of squirrels in my yard and this little female took right to treeing them on her own, as did a male that Cajun raised, none of the other litter mates have had the opportunity to be around squirrels at free will like they had, and not just treeing by sight but I observed her work a trail all the way across the yard quite a few times, her mothers side is bred primarily for the coyote pens so there is absolutely no treeing emphasis what so ever coming from that side, I know this isn’t anything to base anything off of but she is an actual example in the flesh...


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She looks gamey and tough !! Like to see her go with a pack of cat hounds .... Timothy Morgan

[Bon Plott]

Goose, assuming both parents were considered top dogs in their respective fields, was there a reason you went female running male treeing? Has anyone observed difference in litter performance. Just talking runningxtreeing. Does it matter which is male?

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[Goose]

Not really a preference, I just so happen to keep mostly females and only keep females that are breed worthy, this cross was made with the intentions of producing hog and deer dogs, treeing was not a criteria when I was looking for the right male to breed to my gyp, I honestly won’t be able to give hardly any feedback if any at all as to what kinda treeing ability this litter will have because there’s about 99.8% Chance none of these dogs will be hunted on any type tree game unless I ever go bear hunting with them, which is on my bucket list...


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[perk]

Don't have experienced with running x tree cross. But I have noticed the only pups I raise that tree have had sires that would tree or carried genes from dogs that would tree. Have bred males to gyps that didn't tree and got good tree dogs, but haven't seen a hard treeing female bred to a male that didn't at least have the genes in his background produce dogs that tree. Again these are just my observations with foxhounds only, not crosses. I like my males to have that trait when I breed, like both to have trait, but always the male.
Perk

[VARMIT HUNTER]

I don't claim to know very much on cat hunting or training cat dogs , my dogs are used on coon and get lucky and tree or catch a few cats here and there, as too the running dog/fox hound crosses with tree dog stock. IMHO from what I have seen 1/8 - 3/8 fox hound is probably best for Coon hunters or just plain Varmint hunters but definately no more than 1/2. It seems that most of the straight cat hunters use prefer the opposite 1/8 to no more than 1/2 tree hound. I got into the crossbred coon/ fox hound crosses by accident ,about 2005 one of my brothers had 2 English gyps littermate sisters 1 got bred by a neighbors Trigg and the other got bred by one of my redbone males which produced Fido RB/ENG and Kate ENG/TRIGG which made dang good coon dogs and tree dogs these 2 produced my Curly dog. Then I met Mr. Clyde Lawson and got Judge and Mabel they are about 1/2 Leopard x 1/4 Bluetick x 1/4 Running Walker and they are Tree dogs bar none. About 4 years ago I bred Curly and Mabel and I kept 3 of the 4 females and one of my hunting buddies the other and they are tree dogs. The point is if those first accidents would not have happened I would not be a believer but I am now for sure. The Foxhound gives them an extra gear on track and you lose no treeing or locating ability either and you get dogs that handle better in the woods in the pen and in the box plus less health problems. JMHO

[twist]

David our season is closed. To run and catch here consistantly in our dry season it can't be done or if someone claims that they are just ask to ride along with them and watch you'll find I'm right. Andy

[macedonia mule man]

A typical squirrell hunt with tree dogs back in the late 50s early 60s went like this. A couple of us would start down the road walking toward the river bottom with our shotguns. As we passed a few houses a dog or two would come out from under the house and follow us to the woods. Sometimes we would have 4-6 dogs, sometimes more. Dog of all description, collie-Shepard-hound- bird dog- bulldog- rat terrier you name it. I think all breeds have some treeing instinct because all these treed squirrels, coon, and possum. Some would loose interest and go back home pretty quick. Some finished the hunt and wanted more. Nobody in our neighborhood bred for tree dogs of this kind that I ever heard of. I'm sure there was every bloodline crossed due to all dogs ran out at that time. The best tree dog I've ever hunted with was a papered setter bird dog. She was fast, hunted out about 50-100 yds with her nose about as high as her shoulders. When she winded she went straight to the tree and barked right. Never missed many. The squirrell field trials started I think in the late 60 and people started trying to breed dog that would tree squirrels. I think that had been 35-40 yrs ago but the % of squirrel dog that are good , is about the same.

[Tanner Peyton]

Am I the only one who thinks it would be way more of a challenge to develop a line of awesome bobcat dogs using only one type of registered "pure bread" dogs? I feel like one is really handicapping them self by looking for traits in such a small group of genetics. You think what Dans doing sounds hard. My hats off to you "pure bread" guys. I don't know how you do it.

[SASS]

Am I the only one who thinks it would be way more of a challenge to develop a line of awesome bobcat dogs using only one type of registered "pure bread" dogs? I feel like one is really handicapping them self by looking for traits in such a small group of genetics. You think what Dans doing sounds hard. My hats off to you "pure bread" guys. I don't know how you do it.

I find your statement interesting, and it sounds logical based on the premise bigger gene pool more genes to pull from. But when you dig into selective breeding it usually is quite the opposite. First Disclaimer I don't breed any hunting dogs so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

I believe a big part of successful selective breeding is knowing how to play the percentages. In my opinion this is what separates the great breeders from your everyday breeder.

I don't breed dogs anymore but I used to breed game bulldogs. I would never dream of adding cur blood (anything other than bulldog) to my bulldogs due to this very fact. Bulldogs over hundred plus years of selective breeding have had their genes narrowed down pretty well to the ones that were advantageous to it. Adding an outside pool of genes would add back many, many, many unwanted genes. For example if I were to breed my best bulldog bitch to a German Shepard hoping to add intelligence the percentage chance that I would only add that trait to my dogs and not lose any desirable traits that I already had or add any undesirable traits from the GSD would be extremely low. Therefor it would not be worth doing. I feel a better way to accomplish this same thing would be to find a male bulldog (the more similar it is bred the better) that was intelligent and who's parents showed intelligence. Now you have kept out more of the unwanted genes from the outside blood but have added the intelligence genes into the gene pool. Its still a gamble on whether you get what you want or not, but you have just put the percentages much more in your favor.

IMO this is the best way to breed for a long term program. Now you can make big outcrosses which will produce good dogs due to a lot of reasons including Hybrid Vigor but well that is a different conversation, I think I have rambled enough already. lol