Starting a Cur vs Hound

[thunderhead]

I was in Idaho last year for spring bear season and ran into some guys with Leopard curs while heading out to check my baits. I chatted with them for some time and they had switched from hounds to leopard curs. Thy were saying that they were much easier to get started.


That got my wheels turning as at the time I had not heard about that breed and was always planning on getting walkers if I were to get some hounds.


I am a very experienced bird dog guy and trainer, but do not have any experience with running big game with dogs, and am strongly considering getting into it.

I am looking for input into what it takes to get the hounds or curs started on bear or cats.

Thanks!

[Jeff Eberle]

It like anything else what ever someone has at the time is the best. What you need to do is quit trying to decide on a bred and start studying lines with in the breeds . May find out you don’t want either. Way more bird dogs make the grade then hounds or curs if you want top notch dogs , and way more time goes into them then bird dogs. Not trying to be rude about it but your not the first guy to come on here from the bird dog world and want to get into hounds/cur. To be successful it will have to become a way of life for you. I would hate to add up the money I have spent over 30yrs of this vet bill lost wages trucks and so on. I haven’t been on a non dog hunting vacation in all this time. If I was you I’d join a club with out a dog work your way in with a older hunter at needs help with his dogs hunt with him for a year go ever time he goes then at the end of the year see if you still want dogs.

[david]

they had switched from hounds to leopard curs. Thy were saying that they were much easier to get started.

I am looking for input into what it takes to get the hounds or curs started on bear or cats.

Jeff has some great advice about finding an elderly houndman. That would be so ideal for both of you.

Your exchange with the leopard cur guys is weird to me. There is nothing easier to start than a treeing walker. I wonder what kind of hounds they had?!?

I have had leopards that started just as easy, but I don’t know how you could get any easier than starting a decent walker. I would love to make a breed joke here and poke fun at a hound breed those guys must have had that is notoriously slow starting, but there isn’t one.

In my experience, curs are more likely to be slow starting than hounds. But many curs start super early also.

I recomend your original plan with good walkers just because they are nearly impossible to completely ruin. It is easier to ruin a cur dog because they are more like people and you can more easily hurt their feelings and cause mistrust.

But then again, with your bird dog experience, you probably know all about establishing and maintaining trust.

Starting a leopard or a walker will not be hard at all. Stopping them from running what you don’t want is a lot harder. And Finishing them will require total devotion, like Jeff said.

[thunderhead]

All good advise. I am in TX guiding until end of March. When I get home to WI, I will try to make some connections with guys who have hounds to get some first hand exposure to the sport.

[Mike Leonard]

A lot of great advice here already, just one word of caution. It is great to find an older mentor to hunt with and get started , and I am thankful to all the wonderful help I had. but here is the kicker: many times when you fall in with somebody even if they are very successful you have the tendency to shut the door to all other things, and adopt their way as the only way, their dogs as the only dogs and so on. this can hold you back big time because there is so much out there that can really broaden your experience and elevate you in the game much quicker.

Just like anything else in hound hunting we have a lot of guys that have been doing it for years and many of them are successful , but get them out of their element and they are lost.

you said you are an experienced bird dog man. that is great start right there and if you have hung around bird dog guys you will find right quick they don't all do things the same way or even read the same books.

You want to get into this game you are going to have some slips and falls and some older guys can pick you up and dust you off for a bit but you just have to put your boots on grab your leash and make a decision to learn all you can.

I grew up in a bird dog family , and we trained dogs for a lot of people, it helped but when I got to hound in my late teens I was pretty dang lost.

today we have the internet and forums like this and access to many helpful hunter who can smooth the ride.

Good luck, and have fun!!

[Goose]

A lot of great advice here already, just one word of caution. It is great to find an older mentor to hunt with and get started , and I am thankful to all the wonderful help I had. but here is the kicker: many times when you fall in with somebody even if they are very successful you have the tendency to shut the door to all other things, and adopt their way as the only way, their dogs as the only dogs and so on. this can hold you back big time because there is so much out there that can really broaden your experience and elevate you in the game much quicker.

Just like anything else in hound hunting we have a lot of guys that have been doing it for years and many of them are successful , but get them out of their element and they are lost.

you said you are an experienced bird dog man. that is great start right there and if you have hung around bird dog guys you will find right quick they don't all do things the same way or even read the same books.

You want to get into this game you are going to have some slips and falls and some older guys can pick you up and dust you off for a bit but you just have to put your boots on grab your leash and make a decision to learn all you can.

I grew up in a bird dog family , and we trained dogs for a lot of people, it helped but when I got to hound in my late teens I was pretty dang lost.

today we have the internet and forums like this and access to many helpful hunter who can smooth the ride.

Good luck, and have fun!!

How right your first paragraph was, when I first got into running hounds on my own I would go around a guys house and talk dogs and he'd let me use his 40 acre pen to run my dogs in some and I thought he was a hog hunting God and he was the best hunter and had the best of the best dogs around, looking back he was 1 of 2 hog hunters that I knew of lol, as I got older and made many more steps on my own behind my dogs and got to hunt with others I looked back and was thankful for what I had learned from him and gained from him but some of the things he did and would do and things he would say just made absolute no sense once I saw things done another way but with the same results and much more efficient...

[thunderhead]

I looked back and was thankful for what I had learned from him and gained from him but some of the things he did and would do and things he would say just made absolute no sense once I saw things done another way but with the same results and much more efficient...

You bring up a point that I tell people all the time. When I am working dogs with my clients and explaining things to them about dog training, I tell them that you will get lots of advise from people, but always ask yourself if what they are telling you makes Sense. There are lots of techniques and methods to train dogs. I always try to keep things as natural as I can, as that is the way it will be when you are out hunting.

I sometimes just shake my head at what some people do with the dogs.

I have my methods of progressing pointing dogs thru steadiness training and force fetching, but I am good at reading dogs and interpreting what I see. There are times where I will do things a little different with a particular dog to create success on which to build on and progress forward. Not all dogs will fit into a cookie cutter style of training.


The advise given earlier is spot on with regards to observing different people's style of training.

[mulehound]

I have run both for many years. I love traits of both, They are way not hounds. Talk to someone that has had them for years go from there.
Darrel

[Walkerdirt]

Not to hijack the thread but how would you guys define slow starting vs fast/early starting dogs? Where's the line drawn?

Is it really that big of a deal if a dog takes a while to mature as long as you have the time to work with them and it ends up a finished dog?

[lawdawgharris]

I'm new to this forum but not dogs. I've been hunting my own dogs for right at 30 years. To me, slow starting or fast starting is a matter of preference of the individual feeding the dog. I prefer faster starters. I have a family of dogs I've been raising and hunting for a while. In order to move forward with my program I need to know what a dog is going to do. The sooner that dog proves out the sooner I can move forward in my program. Some of those fireballs out of the gate reach a plateau and never really get any better after a certain point and some of those that mature a little slower make whirlwinds. I'm not one to wait 2 or 3 years for a dog to decide. If he's trying, and getting better, and I see what I think is potential then I will probably try and finish it out. I might not breed to it but I will finish it out. If it isn't progressing or putting forth what I feel is enough effort, then I have to cull. I think a dog that is 2 and not already giving a good indication of what caliber it will finish out at stands a poor chance of making the grade for me. Of course circumstances play a role in it too. If the dog isn't hunted fairly it can't very well turn out quick or at all. I've seen too many people judge young dogs too soon and not consider the circumstances. One friend had a dog that was a year old that had been hunted since it was about 6 or 8 months old. One, that's too young for me to put down with the old dogs, just my way and lessons learned. He's an independent dog but absolutely honors other dogs. Her 2 lead dogs are well above average dogs and they are 3 and 5 years old. She was mad because the young male wasn't finding first. I told her that he wasn't supposed to at his age. That if he was the one finding first, then she didn't have as good of a pair of older dogs as she thought. If the older 2 were junk or run of the mill I would be a little more understanding but that wasn't the case. I said he's a year old, set him up for success. Cast him first and give him time to do his thing. When he locates send the others and let him gain his confidence. Right now he's hunting away from them on his own. They know better than he does. He finds his own after a sounder is busted. He wants to do it just give him time and opportunity. She has and he's making a hand.

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[david]

I'm new to this forum but not dogs. I've been hunting my own dogs for right at 30 years. To me, slow starting or fast starting is a matter of preference of the individual feeding the dog. I prefer faster starters. I have a family of dogs I've been raising and hunting for a while. In order to move forward with my program I need to know what a dog is going to do. The sooner that dog proves out the sooner I can move forward in my program. Some of those fireballs out of the gate reach a plateau and never really get any better after a certain point and some of those that mature a little slower make whirlwinds. I'm not one to wait 2 or 3 years for a dog to decide. If he's trying, and getting better, and I see what I think is potential then I will probably try and finish it out. I might not breed to it but I will finish it out. If it isn't progressing or putting forth what I feel is enough effort, then I have to cull. I think a dog that is 2 and not already giving a good indication of what caliber it will finish out at stands a poor chance of making the grade for me. Of course circumstances play a role in it too. If the dog isn't hunted fairly it can't very well turn out quick or at all. I've seen too many people judge young dogs too soon and not consider the circumstances. One friend had a dog that was a year old that had been hunted since it was about 6 or 8 months old. One, that's too young for me to put down with the old dogs, just my way and lessons learned. He's an independent dog but absolutely honors other dogs. Her 2 lead dogs are well above average dogs and they are 3 and 5 years old. She was mad because the young male wasn't finding first. I told her that he wasn't supposed to at his age. That if he was the one finding first, then she didn't have as good of a pair of older dogs as she thought. If the older 2 were junk or run of the mill I would be a little more understanding but that wasn't the case. I said he's a year old, set him up for success. Cast him first and give him time to do his thing. When he locates send the others and let him gain his confidence. Right now he's hunting away from them on his own. They know better than he does. He finds his own after a sounder is busted. He wants to do it just give him time and opportunity. She has and he's making a hand.

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

Excellent post. Very complete in several ways and backed by many years, obviously.
Thank you for the contribution.