lion dogs vs bear dogs

[pistol]

I have been told by people that running your top lion hounds on bear will cause them to loose there cold nose if your hunting lion on snow, because bear hold so much more scent then lion do. What, if any are the pro's and con's on running lion hounds on bear? Me personally run mine on both but get told like wise by others.

[Copper]

I have herd that if all you do is run your hounds on smoking hot tracks lion or bear your dogs won't be as likely to stay with a older track how much truth is in that I don't know but why feed a dog just to hunt part of the year. My personal experience is every dog i've seen that ran bear real good also ran lions real good. I've seen good lion dogs that wouldn't run bear though.

[D/S-hunter]

I'am no expert here but i think alot has to do whith the line of dogs youre running.And i also beleave alot of it has to do whith the training involed.What i meen by this is a dog has to learn to cold trail and be patient and screw his head to the ground.there are alot of good bear dogs that will run lion and alot of good lion dogs that will run bear.But when it comes to cold trailing lion you surely do not want a high strung bear dog who runs whith his head high and over running the track.

[Shorty]

A good friend of mine Terrell Shelly tells me that running bear with your lion dogs does just that. It causes them to try pushing a cold lion track too hard and over run it. Dale Lee told Terrell the best dogs they ever had were those trained for lion. They would really screw down on a track, the ones trained on bear not so much. Those are just some words of some very wise houndsmen.

[Mike Leonard]

Shorty,

If anybody knows Terrell they will certainly value his opinion, a man with a lifetime of big game hunting under his belt. Dale Lee contended to me that he would try to keep his young dogs off bear until they were at least two for several reasons. First just what Terrell said to keep their mind and their nose on the track and to become focused on bearing down and trailing not just running a track. Second he didn't want some of those old spoiled bears putting the Whoop Arse on them pups when they were still a bit immature for it and boogering them for hard bears later in life. He did however contend that if a dog had the real nerve to be a bear or jaguar dog he would probably never have a problem anyway.

I don't want to start anything here but I will give some observation I have picked up over the few years of hunting I have been doing.

Bear and lion is a loose term, and not all bear hunting is the same nor is all lion hunting the same.

Scenario one: Cruising down a forest road just after dawn, nice cool morning the air feels good and fresh. Around the corner and Booom! the rig blows up the box blows up, and you hit the breaks andf leap out and unsnap dogs and the reace is on. the mountains roar with the sound of the pack running in full cry, and real bear race.


Scenario Two: Cruising down the forset road just after daylight, nice morning a bit of three day old snow on the ground and plenty of game movement show by the tracks you see. Come around the bend and Booom! there's a lion track coming across the road bifgger than Dallas. Screech! I know it's fresh cus I came by here yesterday and nothing then. Dump the box, look here Bowser here's a track, BOOOOOO! and away they go and before long it sounds pretty good as they go over the ridge.


Scenario Three: Nice morning cool not too long after sun up. And you ride up a favorite drainage where you spotted some bear sign last week. You have two old strike dogs out in fron of your mule, and severl necked pairs trotting along slightly behind you. The strike dogs cast back and forth looking for scent. Suddenly you see old red up and to the right start to flag his tail a bit and you tell your partner better watch old red may be getting ready to strike. Sure enough old Red moves up a bit further and takes a deep whiff and then throws his head way back and tells the world he smells Oso! Get ahold them necked up dogs Slim and lets see if he and old Molly can get him lined out. So you hold the eager younger dogs back and try to keep them, quiet as the to old vetrans work along the ridge bawling occasionaly. Pretty cold track slim but let's give em a bit and maybe they will warm it up. Well after about 15 minutes both dogs fall in together and pick up the pace so you cut in another pair that races after the others and when you hear them hit the spot and sound off you turn the other two loose and mount up and head after them. No it wasn't a real exciting start but those old trail dogs finally figured it out and worked it up to where they could pick up the pace and hopefully before long you will have a run going.

Scenario four: You and slim leave camp at six, and ride for five hour without so much as a bark out of theose strike dogs . You have several other younger hounds with you but they are loose and you watch them close for the first couple of hours and keep your finger close to the button just incase they bust some trash. By now all the nervous energy is gone and they are just working along thru the country as you travel. Hold up there Slim, ain't that a dang lion track your mule is standing in?Why danged if it ain't Ace by golly it looks like it's not too old either. Where's old Pilot? Pilot come here! Look here's a track sic-em look for him! The other dogs are standing around tongues hanging out and wondering whatin the heck you a re doing. Old Pilot sticks his nose down and takes a big pull of scent. You watch his body and a small tremor goes thru it, and suddenlyit reaches the end of his old flaggy tail and it waves back and forth slowly. He takes a few step off of the trail and comes toa rock sticks his nose on it and then throws his head way back and says OOOOOOOYYYYAAAA! that's a lion! And from there it is root grub. pound help them root, trail lose, help them, pick up trail, trail trail,holy crap Slim they jumped him! and finally just as the sun is getting mighty low in the west you hear that welcome tree bark.


So all bear and lion hunting ain't the same as this either but it is pretty hard to boil it down to a single type.

Scenario one and two dogs can and will be worked together and probably do fine.

Scenario three and four will probably work out together and in all reality do ok with some adjustment. Now then the dogs from the first two may or may not fit into the other scenarios very well. And the dogs from the last two may or may not suit the first two scenarios well either.

so it is a matter of how you hunt or how you like to hunt I guess.

And as one guy said some dogs have been bred to handle different situations better than others, and that's what keeps it interesting.

[BlacktailStalker]

Pretty sure if you wrote a book Mike, people would buy it.

[Mike Leonard]

thanks my friend maybe some day but only a few care much about the ramblings of an old cowboy hound hunter. LOL!

[Dan V]

Have you ever cold trailed a bear? Most would say "NO" Most of the bear hunters I know gather up ol strike dog if he does not open as soon as he hits the ground. The reason? Why screw around with this cold track when I can drive around the corner and strike a fresher track.

I usually hunt bears from the rig. However, some of the best bear hunts have been on foot.

It's hard to say what I enjoyed more:
#1 Striking that bear the other day from the rig and catching him

or

#2 Hiking out of the mountains after a long bay-up and watching some 2-3 year old dogs cold trailing on a bear track when we were 1/2 way back to the truck. (we never caught this bear)

For me its about the dogs. Since my hounds can't count, both #1 and #2 were a success.

[Tim Pittman]

MR.Leonard,there might be more of us than you think!!!!
I pretty well read all your posts[and learn alot when I try'em in the field].
Thanks Tim Pittman

[Catch]

Dogs that do it one way but not the other or the other and not that way are specialty dogs. Good dogs do it in all types of conditions and environments on all types of game. In my opinion it does not seem to mater if they are started on Cats, Bears, or Coon. If my dogs can't switch game and conditions they have choose the wrong profession.

[Ike]

[lepcur]

I've also noticed over the years that after catching bear for 4 months then switching to cats and fox that it takes a little while for the dogs to settle down to work the lesser amount of scent left by these smaller animals. Mike

[onalimb]

Start a dog on bear, then try to get them to put their nose down come winter.........If Mine aren't bear dogs I won't keep them, period, but...I would like to start them all on cats. Switching over with a youngster started on bear can be done, we all do it, but it usually takes getting them tired and sore before they calm down, plant their nose and quit trying to run a ghost heads up. JMO

[Catch]

I like to start my dogs on bear and then run them on other game. I believe it teaches them to always try to run with the nose in the air. This is what I think. Any ole dog can cold trail, and it is necessary, but if you want to catch a high percentage of game they have to get the nose off the ground.

[blackpaws]

Pretty sure if you wrote a book Mike, people would buy it.

it's always nice coming to work in the morning and reading some of Mike's posts. i like reading them because he writes them about how it is hunting out in the west and i hunt in the north so it's a different hunting style that i would like to try some day. good posts mike and keep them coming.