lion dogs vs bear dogs

lepcur · Post by **lepcur** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:25 pm

I took the dogs to Wis. several yrs. ago when I lived in Mt. for the summer training season and we hunted in the very northern part of the state. It seemed like every half mile there was bait, alot of hunters from alot of different states there and the locals put up poles with ribbons on them and when the bear came in the poles would be knocked down and they would have a race of some kind, I don't know how many times I would see the deer standing there eating off the bait as they fed everything from cereal to taco shells, with that much bait around is all I did was drive around and wait for the dogs to rig and catch a bear, I would hunt 3 dogs in the am come back to camp and maybe take a little siesta and go back out with the other 3 dogs, there sure was alot of bear there and I saw a few cross the road in front of me but always had a race going and no dogs in the box. That trip sure was alot of fun.

Mike

Nolte · Post by **Nolte** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:30 pm

pete richardson wrote:bait is easy

-if dogs not used to it - bait is hard- lol , was kinda a learning experience for me and my dogs - i can take semi straight dogs and run trash off a bait-

every critter in the woods is there to clean up any crumbs - what better way to get pup trashing than to keep casting him on a bait lol

Pete

It's funny I always get told how "easy" bait is to hunt off of, and how much more skill it takes to rig. I always thought that was strange, since when I rig I just drive around till the box explodes and toss them out. Usually get a smoking hot run going, didn't seem to be rocket surgery to me.

But I don't discrimate against any type of run, I just like to get the dogs out.

Baits are a smorgasboard of trash and it's wonder how sometimes the dogs can actually get a bear going out of that junk pile. But what fun would it be if it worked out perfect every time.

Like blackpaws said earlier, we've got some smaller sections to hunt in. Which can be a blessing and a curse. You can get dogs out easy and have fairly easy short walks in to trees. But it is an absolute PITA to get dogs to cold trail, because there are so many distractions/obstacles. Biggers sections are nice for that because you can just let the dogs go work and they've got the space to give it a whirl.

I don't know if we've had a dog go 15 on a cold trail, but I'm very positive to have been real close to or over 10. The dogs probably put on that many miles going back and forth though. Cold trailed over the same track we tried earlier in the day (and couldnt' get going) with a different dog. Sad part was we never even got it jumped, but I'm certain we were real close. The bear had swam a little lake and was entering an "off limits" area and it wasn't big enough to press the issue.

Good Cold trailers sure aren't like grapes, they don't come in bunches. I think I stole that one from you pete.

Can you guys knock it off now, we're still a couple weeks away from running and I'm going crazy.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:09 am

Smiley · Post by **Smiley** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:24 am

Ike in my humble opinion I have to disagree with rigging and if you can find a track it is more likely to get that big boar going than some puny little feller.thats having experience with both styles of hunting.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:52 am

blackpaws · Post by **blackpaws** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:46 am

i'll agree that there is some advantages of baiting but there is also disadvantages of it too. like nolte said, it is a big smorgasborg for trash and if you are working some younger dogs on cold tracking then you may run into some trash problems. we do get some rigs because of the baits but i don't ever throw on a rig that i don't have a track to throw on. i have done it too many times where i put down on a blind rig and i end up with a sow and cubs or a big sucker that i didn't want to run. if a guy just went around and put dogs out on hot rigs all the time you aren't making anything either. come kill season you are going to need a cold trailer to get things rolling. the nights get longer, bears hit earlier, more dew sets in than normal. one thing i do know is that the bear population is where it's at because of baiting.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:32 am

Nolte · Post by **Nolte** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:29 pm

Ike

You want to divulge your sectret on how your dogs will coldtrail before, running stuff hot or rigging. Cause I've never seen that. Normally it's a progression from introduction to critters, then hot runs, and then working on coldtrailing. To me anyway, your situation seems about the same as giving a little kid a puzzle without any clue what the final picture should look like.

Also, how many baits have you checked in WI in the fall kill season? I've checked thousands upon thousands, and I can guarantee you that it's NO gimme when it comes to big bear. We've got a 28 day kill season and have and some large boars POUND the bait all summer long and never touch that same bait (or any bait) in kill season. Many times our larger tracks are found in sand/mud or gravel roads after a rain. In areas that never held a big bear all summer, but one just happens to pass through.

The main advantage to bait (for us anyways) is that it pulls bear into areas that you can legally hunt in. We don't have near the vast public hunting areas as other states, so many times the food sources are located on private land. Without bait pulling them off those, your chance of a run would go WAY down. Or your chance of getting your ass chewed would go WAY up.

Throwing on a hot rig, or a freshly hit bait has ZERO difference. It's just you don't have to drive around as much for the second. And from my experience the majority of the rigs are HOT.

D/S-hunter · Post by **D/S-hunter** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:36 pm

I don't know much about running off bait but it seems it would be nice to know the bears already located when you awake in the morning.Where I am from, bear season is now on a qouta and sometimes only open for a couple of weeks.The past couple years there has not been a real big food source to hold many bear in a area,which means the weekend hunters more than likely are going to spend most of their season looking for bear. I am not saying anything bad about the bait hunters I think it would be alot of fun.

Donald
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CODY FANKHAUSER · Post by **CODY FANKHAUSER** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:10 pm

Well said Nolte, if I could type worth a crap I would have said that to a T.
It would be nice to have tens of thousands of acres to hunt like they do out west.

blackpaws · Post by **blackpaws** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:51 pm

Most all of my dogs learned to cold trail along time before they learned to rig and catch a hot track

Wow, that's the first person that i have ever heard say that their dogs will cold trail before running a hot track.

i guess i wish mine were born that good.

D/S-hunter · Post by **D/S-hunter** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:55 pm

I have to disagree that all rig's are smoking hot! I have owned dogs that could rig 2 day old tracks in the right conditions. There are alot of times you can rig in the frost, and then cold trail just as soon as the sun comes up. There are alot of conditions in our bear season, from rain, to freezing, sometimes snow and then really hot weather. I do not own any cold nose rig dogs for this exact reason! Cold nose dogs, that I have owned....the BEAR does not even need to cross the roads to rig. Which equals me waisting awhole lot of my time.

Donald

blackpaws · Post by **blackpaws** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:19 pm

I have owned dogs that could rig 2 day old tracks in the right conditions.

i understand that conditions may vary in different parts of the country. But, if you know for 100% sure that your dogs are rigging a 2 day old track from the top of a dog box then i want your dogs because they are probably the best ever to walk. i know not all riggs are smokin hot but most of them here are really fresh.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:48 pm

blackpaws · Post by **blackpaws** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:31 pm

you can come here and try to rig 2 day old tracks if you want but it probably isn't going to happen. maybe, i could be wrong. never seen it.