Cat scratch

Drytrail · Post by **Drytrail** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:25 am

I met and hunted for a bit with an old lion hunter named Dave Davidson frome globe AZ.Dave was well skilled in catching cats in the dirt and taught me alot about this game.He was the first one to give some insight on cats holding thier scent and few other tricks.He also told me plenty about his firm thoughts on females makin just as many scratches as toms.What do you all think about reading female sign as apossed to tom sign?

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:31 am

Well he is right on the female scratching and i have seen times when they make more scratches around then the toms. If you follow a bit you can get to tell the differens in a female marker and a true tom scrape, and anybody can tell a female marker pile for kittens because they are so high. But a female when she is going into heat, or when she is displaying dominance over a sub female or a new female in her home territory will make kicks both big and small sorta like a dog does but usually not as long, and many times it will be where the ground is a little harder rather than the real soft dirt. I have seen guys ride by them and when you call their attention to them they might say well that is just where a jack rabbit layed down because at times it does look like that only if you look close you can see the dust or dirt has been distrubes in the back of it rather thasn list squatted down in. I have also seen them make a tom looking scrape and you couldn't really tell the difference. I wrote a story in Full Cry one time about catching a female in fresh skiff snow, and she was scraping like a tom, and there was no doubt she was on the one doing it.

Why? Well I don't really know why but I am sure some of you have observed a female dog hist a leg just like a make dog and pee on a bush or a fence or somthing. Why? Not sure, jeaulos maybe. LOL!

chilcotin hillbilly · Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:02 pm

Thats is very interesting Mike. I have yet to find a female that would leave a scrape like a tom. I think I will have to follow out a few more female tracks this season.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:13 pm

Yes that is the only time I can say for sure it was a female making those mock tom scratches. There was a snow that night and there was no other track in the area, and it was made on top of the snow. she made several and it was along a scrape run where toms had scraped before. But when I treed her she was up a little short pinion tree and I could tell without a doubt it was a feamle., I even made a circle of the area just to make sure I didn't miss another track. So i guess like a lot of things in nature about the time you think you have it figured out they throw you a curve. LOL!

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:13 pm

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:50 am

Ike, you are correct, in fact I have done it myself. Here's why.

I had an old timer tell this one time so I thought I would give it a try.

He said when you kill a tom lion trap some his urine and keep it in a bottle in a cold place. Now then when you are out in and area where you know a tom has been running and dowing some scraping but you haven't been able to get on him with a decent track try this. Make a few fake scrapes along the tun and after you have made them by placing your two fits together thumb against thumb and draw then back 6-8 " making a small pile of debres in the back. Squirt a little of that urine on that and maybe on the brush or tree behinds like a tom cat will do. He said sometimes it will fire that lion up when he thinks another tom is making his area, and he will hang around in their scraping a few days looking for him and give you a chance to get him caught.

Just one of those old trade secrets I guess, but I have tried it a couple of times I thought maybe that was the key to some successes, but maybe it was still just timing and luck.

D/S-hunter · Post by **D/S-hunter** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:58 am

Makes me wonder if I've been following some of your scrapes Mike lol

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:48 pm

Very good possiblity. LOL! But if you look close my tracks or my horse's track don't look all that much like a lion. LOL!

You mentioning that made me think back toa funny thing I pulled one time. I had this guy that went hunting with me and he was always into making plaster paris casts of animals tracks. Well when you pour some of those two piece casts the one side has the pads sticking out on it so if you push it down in the dirt, mud or even snow you can make a very realistic looking track.Well he made the casts of great big old tom I caught up in Colorado. Well a lot of the local hunters and outfitters had seen this old big footed toms track but never got a good run at him. Well one day we hit it just right and bounced him up a tree, and another friend of mine harvested old big foot. Well he had found this perfect track in the damp but not wet clay like dirt close to the road. So he got his stuff and came back and made several casts of it. Now this old tim had a whopper hoof on him. On the snow it would splay out over 6" and even in the dirt it would get your attention. Well he asked me if I wanted one of those casts. I told sure and I would like to have one of the reverse side ones as well. I still have the one that looks like a regular track on my mantle. But I took this other one and I JB welded a stick onto it, and I could go along in snow or soft dirt and mud and just make a really pretty set of tom tracks. LOL!
Well I had several other hunter that would just try their level best to beat me out hunting in the morning and most of the time they did because I never have been in to getting up much before 4:30 in the morning and some of them would start running roads at midnight. Well I got this idea so I would see where they went down a road , and I just knew it was dark thirty and they were stepping on it to make sure they beat everybody to a smoking frsh track for an easy catch. I would go in there a ways where it was obvious, and then slide on my brakes, get out and walk of out there in the brush and start making a track line to cross the road, and keep on going . Well I would go just far enough that they wouldn't back track past it, and then I would walk along side the track the other way and take it a pretty good ways so they would think it kept on going . The I would walk back on and off it sorty semi stomping some of it out and leave. Now I know this is mean and I only did it a time or two but damn it was funny to get back and watch them coming back up that road faster than ever heading for another spot. And all of a sudden they would lock all four brakes up, and almost turn the truck over. They would be fighting the doors to see who could get to it first . They would go one way then the other, and then report that no dog track on it so dump the box!

Pretty funny, but like I said I only did that a couple of times and then my cast broke. But I gave em a thrill for a little bit. LOL!

Boy I have been giving out all kinds of trade secrets in a benevolent fashion here. Oh well none of em a worth much, but good for a laugh.

Tim Cook · Post by **Tim Cook** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:30 pm

I cut a lion track one time that looked to be a like a small tom or a grown female. I put the dogs on it and away they went. I followed the lion track the whole time and every couple hundred yards or so I would come across a small scrape, well I thought for sure I was running a tom. About two miles later of following tracks and looking at these "scrapes" I come upon the dogs treed on a very nice female lion. I know for sure they never swiched tracks. This female was for sure scratching but they didn't look like what I guess you would call a true scrape. They were never up against any rocks or trees they were just like she was walking along and would stop and make one of these scratches.

D/S-hunter · Post by **D/S-hunter** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:17 pm

I'am going to keep my eye on you Mike.lol

going back to female scrapes, has anyone ever seen where sometimes a female will lay down by a tom sratch,and kinda looks like they do a roll are something and make toe marks around them.I see vary little stuff like this on BLM land ,but the place where I have been hunting there are very few people and no lion pressure and it seems that the lion's make way more srapes and really communicate with each other.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:09 pm

Tim,

Now that you mentioned it and I think back to the female I was talking about those scrapes were kind of out in the open randomly I guess you would say. Maybe there is somthing to that.Mmm?

I have seen toms do this at times but usually after you get a feel for lions you can just about come into a new country and it won't take you very long to know if any toms have been making that country, because those places will draw you like a magnet.

I was up on a ranch in deep southwest Colorado one time and I was helping work cattle in there. I asked the rancher if he had any lion hunters hunting on his place. He said no we don't have any lions in here. I said never have seen one huh? He said nope never seen one, never seen any kills, never even seen any tracks. We dumped about 150 head of pairs into another set of canyon , made sure they ws mothered up and then mounted up to head back to the trailers. I said to him, I bet I can show you a lion track in fifteen minutes. Fact is I will bet you fifty bucks I can. He snorted and said yer on! Well I had cheated just a little cuz I had cut what looked to be a decent tom track heading into a little header of a real pretty little bowl of a canyon. So we are riding along there, and I pulled off to the left a little to be away from where I come thru on my horse before along side that bunch of cattle. I said by golly that sure lion looking spot down there above that bowl I reckon I will win my fifty dollars right here and now. He just grinned and shook his head. Well I was acting real innocent and just riding along there and then I saw the line of tracks there crossing a little damp sandy spot and I just stopped my horse and held out my hand. He looked at me and I said lay that fifty right there. He said where's the track? So I pointed right off to his right . He said well I'll be damned, and jumped off his horse and went over there and bent over it. How in the world did you know that there would be a lion track right here. I said well that is classified information and only a lion hunter would know that. I answered him real matter of factly just like if you were looking for a hammer in a harware store you would look in the tool section. Well he pulled out his wallet and fumbled around in there and said well I ain't got a fifty on me, all I got is three twenties. I said well that will do, I have the change. We made the excange and got back on our horses and started out of there. All of a sudden he pops off and says I'll tell you what I will do, I will bet you another fifty against that fifty you can't find another lion track before we get to the trucks. Hmm well I didn't have an ace in the hole this time so I hesitated a little and he caught on it. Come on now Mr. Lionhunter put up or shut up. Well I never had that fifty before anyway, and I kinda cheated him a little on it in the first place so I figured I could take the risk, and make the bet. I said ok, your on, but you will have to follow me a bit. So instead of heading back along the trail on the route we made I hung towards the rim of the canyon on the south side. Well I fugured if that tom had been making that country there was probably a female or two around and he also might have tracked around in them rims a bit pretty fresh. So we are riding along and this is desert type canyon country and not a lot of big trees mostly just juniper and pinions short trees, but I look down off there a ways and coming right up close to the rimrock is a big old partially dead Pondersa pine all by itself. Well if ever it looked like a scrape spot for a tom in that bare country this was it. So I just pointed my horse over there and got up there above it and told let's tie up so I can show you this other lion track. I never had any idea there would be one there but it sure looked like the right ype of spot. Well we work around there a little and get down off there and this little top ledge dropped down about 20 feet to where this tree started growing up, and boy when I walked around that little ledge I knew I had him. There scrapes going this way and scrapes going that way all up tight against that bluff, and some of them were real fresh and I meant the pine needles were deep and them old scrapes some of them was pulled up a foot high in the back. I went right over to the freshest looking one and right there in it that top had steped in as he walked out of it and took off and there was a clear hind print in there. Well I'll be guess I don't know what to look for I never had any idea there was lions here and now you have showed me two set of track in less than an hour and I had to pay you a hundred dollars to boot. Well we mounted up and headed out of there and when we got back to the trucks and trailers he said will you take check? I told him no checks for me I am a cash man. Then I just sorta cracked up, and told him hell Bob I cheated the first time cuz I already had seen that track going off there. Well what about the second time? He asked. I said no I didn't know about that one but I figured if there was lions in there I stood a pretty good chance of finding a track. Well he said you sure showed me somthing and I am willing to pay up. I told him I would just make a trade with him, I would forget the second fifty he owed me and trade the first fifty back for key to that gate so I could come in there and run them lions. He said it's a deal!

I have had a lot of fun since then in there and even caught a couple of old slow lions that couldn't run very fast. LOL!

Tim Cook · Post by **Tim Cook** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:57 pm

Mike,

The way the scrapes were I would swear she was making them with her front feet, but I don't know. Alot of scrapes that I've seen up against rocks or tree's I'd swear they made them with there hind feet becuase I would't think there would be any way for them to do it other wise. most of the time I tree lions it's in the snow so you can see what went on pretty well. I think this mught have somthing to do with the controversy wether lions scratch with there hind feet or there front feet. I truly believe they do both.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:35 pm

OOOOHH! Tim, you might have opened up a bag of worms here. But I am with you on this one, I string along with Bill Green who said they can make scratches with either end. Most tom scratches are made with the hind I agree but I have seen some where to me anyway it was clearly evident that they were made or at least modified with the front paws.

BlacktailStalker · Post by **BlacktailStalker** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:21 am

LMAO at the cast tom track, can see guys just cursing like hell at the dogs for not taking it lol
One of the better threads I've read in a while.
Good stuff, keep it coming.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:31 am

Oh make no mistake those dog took it!@All the way to a fresh elk track. I am not really a bad guy but I do get tickeled with the $hit some go thru to be a lion hunter.

ALL IT TAKES IS LION DOGS AND AND A WILL TO GET WITH EM!