Gascogne - Saintongeois

liontracker · Post by **liontracker** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:35 pm

Yellowjacket, do you have a pic of the Grand Bleu in TN?

African · Post by **African** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:55 pm

That is a Grand Bleu - his name was Phlipi and he died along with most of the other dogs in the photo in Dec 2005 from a blood parasite transmitted by the Tsetze fly.
He belonged to the guy who introduced me to the Gascon breeds.
He also had some smokey river blueticks before.
He bought my dogs last year.

liontracker · Post by **liontracker** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:02 pm

What difference did you see between a North American Bluetick and a Grand Bleu and a Santongeois?

African · Post by **African** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:48 pm

The coonhound minded earlier, hunted earlier, game proofed easier, treed better but had less patience on a cold track and wanted to get to the fight as quick as possible.Was a little less 'political' in the pack.
Physically the coonhound has a smaller frame, squarer head, high set ears & shorter.Less muscle mass.Chest a bit too tight and was skin & sinew after a weeks hunting.

The Bleu and Saintongeois are very similar - check out all the info available on the net (wikipedia etc) for the history.Too much to describe here.
The Grand of both are nose to ground hounds.Track glued.The Petit aswell but I noticed they still try run the track as quick as possible.
Good for Hare but not for Leopard.
It is possible to be successful with coonhounds, even foxhounds and all the crosses in between on Leopard but in my experience you have to do most of the work for them in order to put them on the fresh spoor.
A lot of cats are just chased off a bait and treed, and good on them, but I want to walk in the cats tracks.At first it's about putting as many cats in the tree as possible but now its about completing the most difficult track.Maybe I will evolve again later ?

Physically I like the larger size - more intimidating - generally deeper voice.Lower attached ears - very long.Size makes them less driven to race.Bigger body means more area exposed to heat and greater water requirement so I figure white coat is a help.Saintongeois has a light skull for the body size compared to Bleu so less energy on carrying the head.
I'ts a super nose attached to power machine.

liontracker · Post by **liontracker** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:30 pm

What don't you like about a hound running a track as fast as possible?

African · Post by **African** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:03 am

I presume you are refering to my impression of the Petit -

Overrun, lost tracks, competitive with other hounds, jealous, lying.
Hunted singularily they are more honest but mixed with larger, slower hounds they're always trying to steal the lead.
I think it's their speed ability that naturally drives them to work at a faster pace.Like a racehorse and a Carthorse.
I am aiming for a tight pack spread out in a line along the track not zig zagging all over.6/8 dogs of relatively equal physical ability.
They bigger hounds have as much drive to complete the track they just seem less anxious while working it.Their tails also hit 5000rpm's when scent fills their noses.

catcher · Post by **catcher** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:37 pm

african, are they open on trail? do they bawl every track or do they work quiet? im always looking for a cold nosed hound. were the blueticks you used as cold nosed as the saints? but just didnt handle the heat. or do they have them beat both ways. is it very difficult to teach them to tree?

African · Post by **African** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:37 pm

Catcher - they are the definition of open on a track.
There is a general French discription of how a pack should be formed - written for hare hunting - but applicable to all pack set-up's.They seek a dog that naturally opens at the slightest whiff of scent - even when the others don't, another that naturally holds the line and acts as the anchor - when the others are off, another that has the ability to find the scent in poor conditions like roads etc - when the others can't, others that drive the track and so on.
This is all within the same breed just the character differences and genetic traits that allow a dog to slip into a certain role.
A pack is incomplete without all the positions filled - like a football team.
Knowing your hounds intimately is the key and liars are absolutely not tolerated.

The Blueticks I had probably had the nose capability to cold track but really always wanted to pass up the cold trailing as if they understood the animal was just too far away to make an effort.They seemed to prefer to jump and seek a hotter track.
When young they were happy to follow the pack but older they would even drop the rest to hunt alone pulling other young dogs with.

The Gascon's tree just fine with some simple exercises.

catcher · Post by **catcher** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:29 pm

african; thanks for the reply. i would like to find the dog that you speak of that will come up with the scent in poor conditions like roads rock any hard pack surface i have hounds that will drive a track but would like one to minimize the time taken to get back on track after a lose. i dont know if it is possible but i would like try one of these hounds. if you could help me out with a contact that would be great but would understand if you would be reluctent to do so.

liontracker · Post by **liontracker** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:18 pm

I want to walk in the cats tracks.At first it's about putting as many cats in the tree as possible but now its about completing the most difficult track.

I am also at this point and wonder how much better these hounds are than the best American super cold nosed hound.

jimmylee · Post by **jimmylee** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:01 am

yeah I know that photo those were Bill Greens hounds.Bill Mason had
the last six hounds of Bill Greens.Majestics or Blue hounds you be the
judge.The same common ancestors.

jimmylee · Post by **jimmylee** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:15 am

Theirs majestic hounds that are white or just about as white as you can get.Theirs a guy that has some pups for sale a bear hunter.Those pups are white or light ticked with super long ears.Look under classifieds
bear dog pups majestics.

African · Post by **African** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:35 am

liontracker · Post by **liontracker** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:48 am

WELL done...as usual. Very nice.

Dads dogboy · Post by **Dads dogboy** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:18 pm

Very Very Nice!

Your Pack must be perfroming quite well! Could you describe how they handle the track...do they all have the same qualities and abilities or are they like our Bobcat Packs with specialists even amoung littermates!

Thanks, again Gavin very well done!

CJC

Gascogne - Saintongeois

old photos

majestic hounds

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Re: Gascogne - Saintongeois

Re: Gascogne - Saintongeois