cougars and smallest grain bullet

southwestwalkers · Post by **southwestwalkers** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:27 pm

Just wanted to see what the smallest round folks have taken a cougar with? The cats are not thick skinned or heavy boned but I'm curious to see the smallest grain bullet people have taken them on.

I hunt with a 30-30 firing a win 150GR power-point for cougars.

For yotes I'm using a .243 firing Fed Premium NOSLER BALLISTIC TIP 70GR

The yotes are not out of a tree and longer distance. I'm just wondering if that 70GR round from the .243 would fold that cougar at close range.

My guess is it would not be a clean kill as it could be sort of like shooting a yote with a 22LR. It may work but that big cat may still have some fight in him.

Just seeing what everyone thinks...

Travis Stirek · Post by **Travis Stirek** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:09 pm

the 243 with a 75 would be plenty.Shot placement!We can legally and do use a 22 Hornet with a 45 gr as our main lion gun.Nice and small(fits in a backpack.

slidecreekdan · Post by **slidecreekdan** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:41 pm

22 Hornet Will do the job

larry · Post by **larry** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:54 pm

70 gr bullet out of a 243 is overkill. 223's 50 gr bullet are pretty common as are the bigger 22's. Have a friend that killed a big Tom with a .17 also. Doesn't take much to mortally hit a lion.

TomJr · Post by **TomJr** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:59 pm

I normaly use a 30-30 with 150 grain bullets and shoot for the heart/lung area. But the smallest/weakest weapon I have used on a lion is a sledge-hammer handle... don't plan to repeat that feat but I did find lions have a thin skull.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:22 am

Yes I understand a bit about last resort weapons but his question is reasonable. Never assume that the actual weight in Grs. of a bullet make it a more leathal projectile. No many more applications of physics are in play that in effect disengauge the life support system of an intended target. The construction of the projectile along with the impulse or detonation of gun powder condensed into a bottle or tube type case that brings deliverable pressure up to drive this object at leathal speed all come into play.

This could be a lengthy discussion cutting it down to a nut, but let me say that some very fine 22 Long Rifle Round delivered into the correct spot will kill a HUMAN or a cougar both built about to the same effect although some humans may have a bit more sand, if correctly placed.

Tell me what good is a 300 Ultra Magnum with a 200 gr. bullet going 3150 ft. per second delivered into the mid to rear center section of a cougar? Will it die? Certainly , but not immediatly, the same bullet delivered into the skull would cause immediate death. No less a 39 gr. High Velocity 22 Long Rifle fired into the brain of the cougar would cause immedite dis-connect. Fired into the mid-section (now wait you velocity buffs) would cause death but it would as the 300 Ultra take a bit. Oh no the 300 Ultr would blow the guts out of the cat. Maybe if a light handload was used but a controlled expansion bullet loaded properly for the high velocity of the round would most likely poke thru the guts without a great deal of expansion. And without a bone or solid resistance to expand this bullet it would be just that , a poke. Sure it has a largr diameter than the 22 so probably quicker, but not a whole big bunch.

70 gr. 243 Ha! give me a break. It will blow a hole about the size of Dallas in the hearth lung AREA. instant death. My eldest sone killed a huge Boone and Crockett lion over my dogs at ten feet bayed on a ledge with a 243 and a 75 gr. bullet. Neck shot dead immediatly. Fell off the bluff, and later upon skinning the head could be removed with out a problem. Lucky he never hit the skull of the 15" plus tom cat.

R Severe · Post by **R Severe** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:21 pm

Theres a school of thought out among the damage hunters that a small round like the 22lr through the lungs is superiour. The thinking is that the blast of the big rounds will get the cat to jump where the smaller blast won't.
They just start at the sound or climb a little higher and the end is very quiet & clean. Not a option for sport hunting in most states due to cal. restrictions.

From what I've seen, it may well be a better way. It does require a good marksman with a steady hand.

Roy Auwen · Post by **Roy Auwen** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:31 pm

Amen to that Robin!
My thoughts exactly,large bore pistols and rifles not only blow big holes but knock them loose of the tree and have a big chance of dog injuies.
Even tieing dogs back they cat always lands near one.
In idaho it is legal to shoot lions with rim fire cartridges, and 22 caliber.
I personally used them or bow and arrow.
But for my clients i carried my wifes 222.
Always just my personal opinion.

southwestwalkers · Post by **southwestwalkers** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:27 pm

Thanks everyone... nice to know if I'm stuck in the woods with the .243 with 70GR It will get the job done on big toms.

I still rather have my 30-30 w/ 150gr bullets and iron sights for the closer shooting.... ya never know what your hound may tree :lol:

thanks again, Robb

krk hunting · Post by **krk hunting** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:36 pm

My preference is a 22-250 or a 208 they seem to do a good job. 22-250 with 65 grain solid and the 208 with 46 grain solid, I like the solids due to complete pass through with little hide damage but alot of shock power. As many have said it is due to bullet placement. As for arizona it is illegal to shot any big game with a rim fire cartridge.

Kevin

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:48 pm

Roy you made me think about one of my favorite little carry guns and one that sure does the job. I have a 222 in an old Remington Model 600 with the plain short barrel. I have a little K-3 Weaver on it and it is handy as any rifle you can carry, and accurate enough to shoot the eye out of a lion in the tallest tree. I love that little gun and when in doubt I stick that in a new hunters hand and it is just light out for the cat.

Long live the triple deace!

Roy Auwen · Post by **Roy Auwen** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:52 pm

10-4 mike ,i have had to climb more the one tree to kick out a lion that died so fast,they never moved enough to fall off the limb.
222rem is the same one the wife has.

RUFUS · Post by **RUFUS** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:57 am

Hand guns from what i can tell are out of the question correct ?

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:15 am

You can include me in the minimalist school of thought when it comes to chosing bullets/calibers for taking lions over dogs. On an animal where the hide is the trophy, I can't see blowing big holes in the pelt using high caliber rifles. Line up for a double lung shot and a .22lr or a .22mag is all you need. A pin hole going in and the bullet pressed up against the hide on the other side makes for a happy taxidermist.

Mike, I had an uncle who had a .222 in a Rem 600 that I fell in love with. So when a used .222 in a Rem 700 came through the local gun shop a few years back, I bought it. At first I was disappointed with its accuracy, but an upgraded scope and some tweaking of the trigger pull turned it into a tack driver overnight. I won many a bet at the shooting range with this little rifle.

So I'm with you Mike, long live the triple deuce!!

southwestwalkers · Post by **southwestwalkers** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:59 am

RUFUS,

I know speaking for myself I can't be as accurate with a handgun as the long guns especially beyond (100 feet or less) using open sights. If that cat is on the ground fighting with my hound. I may hit my dog. So for me I would stick with my rifle.

If I where to use a handgun the smaller bore handguns (.38 caliber or less) may be suitable. I also would be use a revolver as well. Less jamming in dusty or dirtier condition.

I'm sure there are some guys or gals that can answer it better than I but just my two cents worth.

good luck,

cougars and smallest grain bullet

cougars and smallest grain bullet

Cal.