I'm stumped ?

Hound 1 · Post by **Hound 1** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:54 am

Ok so this year my dogs were on 40+ bears, and did very well. I have had them pinned up for about a month and have been running them and coon hunting them when possible. Out in the woods they do great, and will catch most of the coons that they start. So the last two nights I have had some caged coons, I take them out and let them go, and return about an hour or more later, the dogs rig hard, and start trailing good, and about 50 yards into it, they stop, and can't get any farther. There is very little if any wind, cool temp, I am at a loss? I can catch them all the time in the woods, where they go a lot longer than this. What do you all think?

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:18 am

I'll give you an opinion......I think most dogs tend to specialize in one species over time. I know the best coon dog I ever owned was just a so-so cat dog and the best cat dog I ever owned didn't even like running bear.

It is tough to find a dog that will run all species with equal competency because every species utilizes different skills. Just be glad you have a bear pack.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:38 am

I don't know for sure but youysaid they were treeing free ranging wild coon ok for you so they have interest in them.

You trap or cage the coon: he sets in that cage rolled up on his head most of the time like caged coons do. You take him out to dump him he is stirred up a little and then heads off into the bush. His caged scent was fairly strong on him, so the dogs rig or strike that and even start the track out ok, but then the coon stops analizes his situation and direction and by then a lot of the scent is off him and no longer does he smell just like a caged up coon. He is in unfamiliar territory so he goes into a caution mode and as we have discussed before predatory animals as well as prey animals can mask, change or possibly even hold scent to some extent when they are stressed and in a caution, fear mode or in a lay up or stalking or ambush mode.

Like I said don't know but that is about the best guess I can come up with for this stumper question. I have seen the same thing with caged released critters. Sometimes the dogs smoke them and some times they make the dogs look like idiots.
Talking to a friend yesterday and he was out bear hunting and his dogs got on a bobcat. Well four of them are setting there watching the dogs trail and they jump the bobcat and said he flew out of there so fast they couldn't beleive it. From that point unlike a lot of jumps the dogs could do no good at all with it. Lots of strange stuff happens with scent?

hemihound0713 · Post by **hemihound0713** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:38 pm

i have seen and talked to other guys that have seen the same thing a you guys. i now that one of r dog wont even tuch a caged coon for anything at all but will take a catch a wild coon. i now a nother guy that he has dogs that wont even make a nose on a caged coon or move the track at all they will go right on by it. but i have dogs that will catch caged coons when they a let go and then come back to an hour or two later and they get about every one of them.

alex

mike martell · Post by **mike martell** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:39 pm

i have a 2 year old dog that is starting to show less interest in coon hunting. she comes from a long strain of big game hounds. her first year she struck them from the box ,this season she don't show much interest. however when bear hunted it is a new game. look out. i have a friend who nite hunts his dogs,as well as field trials. they started off good in the field but are now dogs that can't catch game where it counts. as i follow behavioral patterns in dogs you conclude nothing more that theories. most breeds are bred for a purpose of specific game.this is another reason i strive for bear bred dogs, as i find most will catch coon,lion well. if for no other reason than that. bobcat dogs however are in a different class.the up side is your dogs work big game well. real hunting scenarios well. so that is good. if it were the other way around i would say you have a problem. you hit home with me why 1. i never start a dog with a drag. 2. never nite hunt or field trial a dog intended for the field. yes i have done it but i discourage the practice. to me replicating mother nature is hard to do. as well as mock up situations. good luck...

Dan Edwards · Post by **Dan Edwards** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:23 pm

Playing hunting games is not at all hunting nor does it even begin to show a man what kind of dog or dogs he is hunting. They are just that, games and not to be confused with hunting. Track greyhounds are the fastest dogs on the track but in very few circumstances are they the fastest dogs in the field. The track is just a game and they know it and play it very well. I too have used caged critters in my life but I no longer fool with them at all. Dont even own a live trap or roll cage any more and never will own one again.

Dan Edwards · Post by **Dan Edwards** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:31 pm

One more thing. Growing up my daddy always said that a man shouldnt fool with them cage coons to awful much cause they just didnt do any good and the damage they could do was more than any good they could do so he said just keep it to a minimum so I always did. Maybe showed a 10 month old pup a coon or two and released one or two usually with little success at the released coons. Anyhow about 5 years ago or so, I said to my old man that I didnt think them damn coons in a cage did a damn bit a good and I didnt think I was gonna fool with them at all anymore. He said that it was probably for the best and he wasnt sure that he ever seen a damn bit a good done with em neither. I got the feeling that maybe he had always thought that caged critters was a waste of time and didnt want to fool with them but he didnt want to discourage me all the way cause he wasnt for sure but I think we both agree now that they do a hell of alot more harm than good in many different ways.

twist · Post by **twist** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:24 pm

I have used live traps for many years to catch coon and release them if done right it is a very good way to start young hounds. One thing I always do is (wet the coon down) prior to release and then when I go back to run it always walk the dog into the track never just dump them out on top of were you let it loose.

Dan Edwards · Post by **Dan Edwards** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:01 pm

twist wrote:I have used live traps for many years to catch coon and release them if done right it is a very good way to start young hounds. One thing I always do is (wet the coon down) prior to release and then when I go back to run it always walk the dog into the track never just dump them out on top of were you let it loose.

Thats about the best way to do things with a cage coon. Just use it to put young dogs on a fresh track sort of that you know what it is. It can be helpful in that manner if you need to do it. Where I live it aint necessary especially if I got a straight older dog.

I start a few coyote dogs a year and never have put them on a caged critter and they always get into it so it aint really necessary for a coon dog neither but hell if done right it shouldnt do wrong by them. Of course, I cant ever seem to get a good dog so maybe I aint doin shit right. HAHAHA!

Hound 1 · Post by **Hound 1** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:06 pm

Ok, thanks guys. I find it real easy to go trap a coon a few times a week to keep the dogs in tune and excercised, but I will just hunt them now, they don't need to see game, they are hunted hard, I am really busy at work. Thanks for the input.

BlacktailStalker · Post by **BlacktailStalker** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:40 pm

You must have a lot of coons because I'm lucky to get one a week and I've got traps everywhere...

Hound 1 · Post by **Hound 1** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:17 pm

I can fill almost every trap I set, no problem. I have private ground by a dump, that helps me out alot.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:32 pm

In Utah, coons fall under Department of Agriculture. Years ago, I read a handout from DWR about coons that is most likely still on the shelf today. According to state law, a person can not hold a coon in a cage or release it without breaking the law. The reason for that law is coons are a non-native species and catch and releasing them only spreads the population.

Years ago, when I started with hounds, I contacted the DOA and asked about acquiring a permit to hold a coon in captivity for training my hounds (since you aren't suppose to do that without a permit). Well, the lady I spoke to on the phone just couldn't understand why I would do that. She told me, if I had a coon problem they would send somebody out to take care of the problem; likewise, if i had already caught one they would come take care of it.......................

I gave up! I didn't make this post to be smart but just to let people know what the law says or use to say.........most of the biologists that I've known would most likely wish us all good luck in wiping out that population.

ike

Hound 1 · Post by **Hound 1** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:30 am

You are correct IKE, and when I catch it, I get rid of it. I have tried to wipe out the coons, but for everyone I catch, I probably see 10 more move in, they are bad. Thanks for the advice and info guys.

brent87 · Post by **brent87** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:32 am

well you boys are welcome to send some of your coons to tennessee we are short on game this year do to last years drought and this years drought. it is amazing because there is so much for the critters to eat and nothing to eat it. your coon problem is like our deer problem. have fun.