Whats a decent cull rate?

[nmplott]

I have yet to meet someone who has gotten 100% success with their dogs. My brother and I were talking and we are about 60% cull rate. We have only kept 40% of the dogs that suited us. What is your cull rate?

[Larry Roberts]

Thats a hard one.There are always more cull hunters than pups

[slidecreekdan]

Larry, You got that right

[bob baldwin jr]

I would think that the average would be 30-40 % cull on any given litter

[Ike]

Just a question or two for you guys:

1) How many litters do you have a year?
2) What are some of the reasons that you are culling four out of ten pups?
3) Also, I see people advertising pups for four and five hundred dollars on this boar.....have the culls already been removed or they still in the litter?

Just curious,
thanks.....

[broncobilly]

Given the fact the fact that on average, 50 percent of the pups will be better than the average genetic potential of the parents, and 50 percent will be worse, your culling percent will be a direct result of the genetic quality of the dogs you are breeding. Although I don't reccommend trying it, it is possible to breed two unrelated culls out of parents with superior genetics, and come up with a litter with a very low cull rate. It is also possible to breed two unrelated outstanding dogs out of parents with inferior genetics, and come up with a litter with a very high cull rate.

Ideally, I think that a breeder who is doing his homework and carefully analyzing each cross 3 to 4 generations back before he makes the cross, and staying with dogs of similar genetic makeup, should be culling less than 30 percent. The downside of this is that although you should be getting consistantly good, or even consistantly superior, dogs, you will seldom get a truly outstanding dog.

To get a truly outstanding dog with any consistancy, and its still not very consistant, you need to be breeding dogs with more variety in their genetics, ie, outcrossing, the tradeoff is that although you might get better dogs, you will also have a higher culling percentage, and there is no guarantee that the whole litter will not be culls.

The bottom line is that the greater the genetic variety of the parents, the greater the possibility of an outstanding hound, and the higher the cull rate. The more genetically similiar the parents, the less possibility of great hounds, but the lower the cull rate.

Personally, I like to try for the outstanding dogs, so I have a pretty high cull rate, but then, I don't sell pups.

I think that anybody that sells pups should be breeding for the consistancy and should have a cull rate of less than 20 percent. Maybe thats why I very seldom buy a pup, because so few people are going that.

That last is, of course, just my opinion.

Bill

[Grzyadms4x4]

Bill, that's some good insight. I'm not a breeder, but I have a lot of admiration for the guys that do. It's appears that there is a lot of hard work and brain racking to successfully breed high quality dogs consistently. That is why I am very leary of the ads in full cry. Almost all of them say their pups are the best, treeing and trailing at 6 months, treeing word class toms in high wind for 30 miles by the age of a year. Not that it doesn't happen, but I think a lot of the guys are breeding for the money and not the product. Thanks for sharing.

That's a good quote from Abraham Lincoln too! Wonder what he would of thought of Barak Ohama?

[nmplott]

I have never raised a litter of hounds, I used to raise boxers and had raised a few litters of that breed. Only recently have I had hounds to reach the bar that I would breed and I have bred one and will breed my pocahontus female when she comes into heat next. I will not breed something that does not preform. I have had hounds for only a few years.

[Ike]

You've just brought up another really good question nmplott, and that is....

d) When (or what makes) a hound reach the level of dog that a guy wants to breed? What is the criteria? One that has everything? One that will start, run and tree it's own game? One without any flaws or one that just has the right stuff?

I remember some time back a post asking what we all thought make a standout, top shelf hound. Somebody answered that the test of time was important, and that dog should still be doing it past eleven or twelve years. The problem is if we wait that long to breed a dog odds are we aren't gonna get any pups from that cross..........

ike

[nmplott]

Ike,
I feel that a dog worth keeping should be worth breeding, the only time a dog should be fixed is if it had an accident or some other medical (not genetic related) condition like complications during whelping or stuff like that. Otherwise it is a cull.

[Ike]

Good point you bring up nmplott, and I haven't ever cut any of my dogs either--most all of them have been bred or are in the breeding program for the future. And I only plan to raise pups that I'm gonna hunt with one or two exceptions of close friends..........

I did breed a couple litters and sell most of the pups seven or eight years back, and every pup in those litters were keepers and found a home with guys that had nothing but good to say about them. One of those pups is my seven year old Choco dog of which I can't say enough good things about.

More recently I bred two of my stud dogs out to friends and I heard nothing but praise come back out of those guys either. Maybe I've just been lucky or those guys just don't know what a good dog is.........

I do have a plott that I most likely will never bred. He came to me as a yearling from a good friend to hunt and make whatever I could make out of him. He's in his second year and starting to come along rather nicely, but odds are he'll go back to the guy who made him someday since his sir is gone.

keep'em treed,
ike

[broncobilly]

d) When (or what makes) a hound reach the level of dog that a guy wants to breed? What is the criteria? One that has everything? One that will start, run and tree it's own game? One without any flaws or one that just has the right stuff?

To me, the answer to that question is: It depends on what I am trying to do with a particular cross. For instance, if I have a line of dogs that I really like, but have a small deficency in one area, then I will look for a dog that is at least average in the other traits, but is strongly prepotent for the trait I want to improve.

Even within dogs of the same line, I look for complementary traits. Because I have never owned a perfect dog, I am always trying to improve my bloodlines. Even the "once or twice in a lifetime" dogs that I have been lucy enough to own were not perfect, they all had weakness that I have tried to fix by breeding them to dogs that were average or better in the traits the outstanding dogs were strong, but were especially strong in the trait that the outstanding dog was weak in.

To me, the minimum levels that a dog should exhibit before he is even evaluated for particular desireable traits is that they should be able to start their own track, follow it, and bay/tree an average speciman of the species that you plan to hunt the offspring on, by themselves.

Bill

[nmplott]

To me, the minimum levels that a dog should exhibit before he is even evaluated for particular desireable traits is that they should be able to start their own track, follow it, and bay/tree an average speciman of the species that you plan to hunt the offspring on, by themselves

Bill I agree on those being desirable traits, one that you left out is the disposition. My hounds have to be able kick ass on game but take direction from my children. My dogs do not all have to jockey for lead dog but they have to be able to get it done with little to no assistance.

[JTG]

I have a friend who's friend has been keeping whole litters for 40 plus years and keeping the best. Over the years he has cross Plotts, Redbones, Blueticks and even Blackmouth Curs and Lepord Curs.
He lives in the National forest and all he does is hunt and hunts on Horse back from all day and when I say all day it's still dark and gets back after dark.
Even the ones he culls would be top hounds to most. My point is unless you keep whole litters for years it is diffucult if not impossible to know what type of pups you are producing.
I also have to say that some of the best breeders do not go to competition hunts or have adds selling there super hounds.
JTG

[pete richardson]

bay/tree an average speciman of the species that you plan to hunt the offspring on, by themselves


seen quite a few dogs tree one bear or maybe a few alone

seen way fewer tree alot alone

dogs that can strike ,cold trail , run , and tree alot of bear alone should be bred to death - , some of those may have faults that prevents them from being breeding material -

I have never owned a perfect dog, ive never seen one -

you may not give that dog up for nothing---- but doesnt mean you should breed him --- or you did breed him ---and he didnt reproduce his likeness-


odds are--- the best dogs will produce the fewest like themselves-
you will compare those pups to old legend--- and cull them harder --


its easier for a pup out of average dogs to look good-



dogs that are not worth breeding are culls to a breeder - they are taking up space -- that could be used by another pup -- that maybe will be the next GREAT ONE lol

using that definition ----- id guess a 90% or higher cull rate- the best breeders may have the highest cull rate ----not the lowest -

i want to buy a pup from a guy that is ruthless




a breeder may sell a cull for several thousand dollars to somebody that keeps it to old age and is very happy with it-

if you count the dogs that are useable and an asset to most packs--- thats a different percentage-



if you only count the pups that are only good for worm food thats another % -




back in the olden days---
when gas n dog food was cheap lol i liked to raise 4-5 pups every other year - id keep the best or earliest starting pup -- n hopefully have a decent started dog or two to sell -- i liked to do it that way --so i could compare pups -
one year raised 5 out of 5 good ones

id like 5 just like them today -- i kept one and sold 4 for a good price
thats one time-- in last 25 years lol


another year i raised 4 --- and didnt keep any -- and didnt sell any --




thats how it goes sometimes-

the quality of parents and bloodlines were very close --

most the time ive been forced to feed dogs i could catch game with but didnt think were worth breeding -

so i was feeding a whole yard full of culls -


if you have a half dozen dogs whats the chances that you have the best possible male and female in your yard to breed--


what ive always done-- is try to come up with the females ---

keep half as many dogs that way - chances are i can pay a stud fee on a better male than i own

im not really a breeder - have a litter about every 4 years - but every pup i raise ,i have breeding in the back of my mind -
- only dogs worth breeding have a permanent home -

ill keep some culls to hunt til something worth breeding comes along