small question...

[Josh Kunde]

Alright, it has been a while since I have said anything on this forum at all, I have kinda been enjoying just sitting back and listening. anyways. I just have a small question. How bad is it reallly to let a young dog run trash? I dont mean going out looking for trash to find and running them on it, but just accidently letting them run it. I dont have a shock collar, tracking collar and to tell you the truth she barely has a normal collar anymore. But lately its been hard for me to find a cat track so when I am roading her she will start messin around with a deer or elk track, sort it out, and then tear in after it. I honestly dont mind because she hasnt been on that many cats and I am happy she is runnning anything. I was just wondering what everybody elses opinions were on this. I am not letting this get out of hand to where she thinks that this is what she is supposed to do, but I have noticed already that from sorting out these tracks she has gotten better at sorting out other wanted tracks. just curious.
Josh

[Cold Track]

I dang sure wouldn't want an older dog trashing on deer or elk, but if a pup can't run a hot deer or elk track like it's nobodies business then they sure ain't going to run any desired game for ya. JMO

[pete richardson]

-- its bad practice here-
deer hunters really resent it, some might shoot your dog -- wardens can take your licence -
landowners could throw you off- nobody wants to hunt with somebody elses trashy dogs--

thats why ive always done what i can to keep them straight, get them started on game i want-


either way is kind of a slow process-



ive got some pups and young dogs rite now-----never ran anything and will be a little old when training season starts

took one yesterday and one today and put them on rabbits with my beagles -- just amazed me how easy they started lol

took to it like moose -lol
first time ive ever tried this so ill tell ya next year if it was a good idea-

alot of oldtimers around here used to do this-- and they didnt have shock collars to break them off --
i figured, i might as well try it once im down to almost nothing for dogs ,im hoping this will speed up the process


ive started some on coon and switched to bear-sometimes its an easy switch and sometimes its not ---


oh ya-- one of best dogs i ever had--- first thing she ran was a deer- -she was very young , i didnt know if i should be proud or kill her -so i compromised - no more deer but took up moose -

wasnt easy to get straight --even with a good shock collar- but once broke ,she was very straight for a lot of years

most dogs have to be broke off something-- unless started and ran with straight dogs , and then they just have to be bent . lol


so after all that--- my advice is--

-dont let them get tooo good at running deer or elk -

expect that if you are going to push young dogs to cold trail and start without a trained dogs , you are going to run some trash- .. a shock collar would make life alot easier -

[briarpatch]

Very good advice Pete. And your "rabbit" pups will very likely turn out very good...... the very best trail and track dog I ever hunted with (in over 50 years) was raised up from a puppy running loose in the country.....ran anything that moved, with help from some cur dogs, until she was a year old.

briarpatch

[high desert hounds]

Josh I live out in the country with sage brush shoulder high. My dogs run loose all the time. the only time they are kenneled up is if one is in heat. we hunt about four days a week on average. my dogs have always run rabbits. I get a lot of static from other dog guys until they hunt with my dogs. Those young dogs will trail those rabbits from morning until dark, how could i ever get them pups that much trail time. I try to start hunting my pups hard between 6 and 9 months. alot of times those pups will trash out and disapear. but after a while they get the game figured out. I think a dog should be able to trash break himself. I would be scared to use this method if I only had one dog. I think this works because of the monkey see monkey do mentality. My dogs seam to loose intrest in those rabbit at about 1year or 1 1/2 years. I'm sure if I quit hunting my dogs they would revert back to hunting rabbits or whatever. the reward for a lion bear or bobcat is much greater than a stinky ol jack rabbit. They seem to trail better than other dogs they're age and I can only atribute this to the rabbits. I AM NOT A DOG TRAINER SO THIS IS NOT TRAINING ADVISE JUST WHAT WORKS FOR ME. GOOD LUCK

[justahunter]

Some of the best trailing dogs i've ever hunted w/ were raised in Nevada out in the middle of the desert. They ran jackrabbits and coyotes all day and night till they were a year old . to this day they can smoke a track dry ground or snow. Some of them pups went to north carolina and are always the first to cross the road just flat flying on a track leaving the other dogs behind. The only thing i think is bad about it is the dogs that were raised like that are not that great of tree dogs They are what i call trail happy. Trail it to the tree turn right back around and trail it back to were you started. lol. So in a way i think its good. I leave my dogs penned up from the time they start wandering to far or raising hell, and they still catch me plenty of game.

[Josh Kunde]

Well right now I dont think its hurting that much. shes learning and I am having fun watching her learn. I'll tell you all how it goes this week on the cats and what not hopefully I wont be reporting on the abundant deer population haha . thank for the input everyone.
Josh

[kickemall]

Josh I think your making a huge mistake your going to regret. Rabbits are one thing, most dogs will just quit them on they own once they're started on good game. Deer and Elk are completly different. Let her learn to trail and run on good game and NEVER let her run trash. The only thing she is learning now is bad. First time your trailing a trophy tom lion and she runs a deer out of the country you'll regret ever letting her fool with them. All your going to end up with is a spoiled trash runner that no one will want to hunt around. Good luck with whatever you do.

[Cal Bryant]

Josh,
If the dog has indeed seen a couple of cats then it is time to stop the trash running. I believe that it is ok for some trash runs when young and have not seen the right game, but when they have seen the right stuff that should be all they get to run. by trashing now all you are doing is telling dog it is ok to run trash. Get some shock collars. or start walking out different tracks on leash, lion track let dog know your happy praise it up a bunch. TRASH make it pure hell when dog puts nose down, dont beat dog just yell scream jerk head up out of track, make it real uncomfortable for em. Hope this helps.


Cal Bryant,
775 625 2640

[Mike Leonard]

This is a good post and it made me think when it came to rabbits. Out here where I live we are bordered by the sprawling Navajo Indian Reservation. Out on the res. you have a lot of dogs that go wild and breed wild and feral dogs can be a problem. I have seen these mangy little critters out in some of the most God forsaken country you can imagine and they get by a lot of the time by catching rabbits, and prairie dogs to eat. Jack rabits and cottontails both, and if you ever get back away from them and watch them hunt up these rabbits you will appreciate the true hunting instincts that come out of a dog when it is about survival. Most of these dogs have little or no hound or sporting blood in them. Usually they are a mix of sheep dogs or stock dogs mixed with just regular old mutts that wander in from pit bulls to labs to you name it, but they learn how to trail up and catch rabbits. Usually they revert to coyote like tactics and they use team work once they get a big jack rabbit trailed up and running and they figure his circle and lay an ambush, but cottontails they will trail them up bolt them and catch them as well. Out in this old dried out desert country with a little sage brush and not much else it has to be some tough trailing but I guess driven by a hungry belly these old Heinz 57 dogs learn to use that nos pretty darn good.

I would say if you got some young hounds that can really drive a rabbit track in the desert country early on they will have some honed trailing ability if you can get them switched over on cats.Problem here is our rabbits are just about as scarce as the cats. LOL!

[houndnhorse]

I heard two of my pups burning up a rabbit track just this morning while I was headed to work. I call it my secret weapon. Every dog I've got now runs rabbits, but has never even offered while out hunting. I get to let them run free most of their life, and have one older dog loose with them. I sent a pup too Utah a month or so ago at seven months old, and I got a phone call from the guy saying how impressed he was with the pup running to catch. It was a deer, but she was running to catch it. Anyhow, I got a video on my cell phone New years day with that pup under a lion tree, treeing to beat hell. I guess she put her nose in the track, opened, and the last time he saw her she was backed away from the tree, treeing her heart out. Not sure if it was the rabbits, or the occasional deer race that made her track minded. I know not much help, just what I do. So, running deer on a regular basis might be undesirable, but how else do you get them in shape?