What the hell is going on in South Dakota???

[Scratch]

I just got off of the South Dakota Game and Fish web site. I was looking at the Mountain Lion quota and could not believe what I was reading, I'm not one to tell another person what they should do or how they should do things but come on people.
The so called houndsmen over there why are you killing 5-7 month old kittens and all those females. Out of thirteen cats taken eight are females, mostly under the age of 2.

Tree those cats and then lease up you're hounds and walk away so you can run another day. I know you have plenty of cats in the Black Hills but at this rate of killing females and KITTENS you won't have in afew years. Trust me I have seen this greed before down in central New Mexico.
Check out South Dakota web site under Mountain Lion quota for 2009.

Scratch

[NWKemDawg]

I think inexperience and not having an overall outlook of the whole thing is a big part of the problem, as well as not having the due respect for the species being hunted. I mean come on what do you get out of shooting those young cats and the females? This is definately a problem to be concerned with in my opinion. IF this carries on for a little while longer it will be devastating to the cougar population and will take a long time to recover! jmo

[Doogie]

if you would of read the regs first they are not allowed to persue lions in SD with dogs. spot and stalk and calls only for lions in SD.

from what I hear the districts in wy that border that black hills are always the first to close for the same reason your complaining about.

Shawn I gota bone to pick with you again lol

[Scratch]

Doggie

According to a wildlife biologist in the area this (2009) is the first year that they can hunt with hounds in South Dakota. And you are correct also about Wyoming area's along the Black Hills closing fast, the same biologist mention that more and more S.D. hunters come across the border into Wy and practice the same hunting styles.

The Wyoming Game and Fish was hoping that since South Dakota was allowing the use of hounds that it would help relieve the problem. I know the Black Hills has a lot of cats but at this rate... they won't, and it's pretty sad.

Scratch

[Ike]

I'll bet it doesn't take long to put a dent in that populaton if they continue along that path. If you look back at the history of Utah going to harvest objective you'll see that many of the units were closed quickly the first year, nearly closed the second year and by the third or fourth season some units only had a couple of lions killed on them. Maybe South Dakota is different and has good lion populations on adjacent lands that's not taking a heavy hit, but if they don't it won't last long. But if they don't have those animals in adjacent habitat that will move in and take up residency then their hunt will get thinned down pretty damn quick!

That's what has happened to Utah's lion populations, first an attempt to regain mule deer populations and then a desire to put wild sheep on the mountain. Those managers can't have harvest objective tags on every unit in the state without removing a large number of the lions unlesss they set the quota pretty damn low with minimum female limits.......

There are eight lion units in the region I hunt and only one of them is limited entry, and it has only produced a couple large toms each year in recent years. There was a time, however, when many of the tag holders could have expected a chance at a good tom on that unit. There was also a time when they had twenty-five or thirty tags rather than ten or twelve for the public.

ike

[Ike]

There was an article in the Standard this past week about DWR releasing wild sheep on the mountain, and the years and efforts it has taken to get the habitat ready for them, which agencies were involved and the viewing opportunities they will provide. However, nothing was mentioned of the harvest objective or lion removal that was done to taht area to prepare the habitat for the sheep.......................

Guess a guys should get rid of his hounds and take up drinking beer and watching the football and basketball games huh!

ike

[Sammy]

First of all let me clear a few things up. You cannot use hounds to aid in the taking of a lion. Trust me there are plenty of houndsmen in SD that would love to. So the SDGF&P in their infinate wisdom allows anyone to buy a $15 license to hunt them. They have a quota of 35 lions or 15 females whichever comes first at the rate there goin its gonna be the 15 females. Also your not supposed to kill a spotted one. The guy that shot the 6 month old one said he couldnt see the spots from 150 yards away. I think its absolutely ridiculous the way their going about the season. If the want to lesson the numbers but maintain a healthy population they need to let us run them with hounds and see whats in the tree before you pull the trigger. Its a $2000 fine if they catch you running one with your hounds. I dont know which biologist told you that we could run them with hounds but maybe thats for the next years season.

[Doogie]

From the SDGFP website

http://www.sdgfp.info/Wildlife/Mountain ... season.htm

Requirements:

Mountain Lions with spotted coats (kittens) may not be harvested.

Any mountain lion accompanying another mountain lion may not be harvested.

All mountain lions taken in the Black Hills Unit, including carcass and pelt, must be presented to GFP staff at the Rapid City GFP Regional Office (3305 West South Street) within 24 hours of the kill for inspection and pelt tagging.

Individuals who take mountain lions outside of the Black Hills must contact a Conservation Officer, State Trapper or other department representative within 24 hours of kill to arrange for inspection of the carcass and pelt.

All firearms, muzzleloaders and archery equipment must meet the same minimum requirements established for deer hunting in South Dakota.

Shooting hours are ½ hour before sunrise to ½ h our after sunset.

Hunters may not hunt with the aid of dogs, bait or traps.

Hunters may use electronic calls.

The Game, Fish and Parks Commission may, by resolution, authorize the mountain lion season to extend beyond March 31.

Landowners who have purchased a mountain lion license can harvest a mountain lion year-round on private land they own or private land they lease outside the Black Hills Fire Protection District. All harvested mountain lions must be presented to a conservation officer, state trapper or department representative within 24 hours.

All licenses are sold by application through the GFP License Office in Pierre. Applications may be submitted online or by paper application through the mail. Licenses will be available for sale through the end of the season. Please allow ample time for processing and return of the license before the hunt takes place.

[r_cordell]

The problem that South Dakota has on their hands is the two sides of the can't meet in the middle with a common sense solution. On the one side is the people who are fighting to get the lion put on the predator list, so you could shoot them like any old coyote. And on the other side is the people and organizations that oppose all kinds of lion hunting. Both sides need to realize that mountain lions do need to be managed and the best way to do that is by hunting them with hounds. State Represenative Betty Olson (605-855-2824) is trying to make eliminating the mountain lion from the face of the earth her legacy. If you read her newspaper articles ever, you'd think there's a lion hiding behind every rock just waiting for a chance to eat a baby. The Audubon Society representative, Nancy Hilding (605-787-6466), that lives in Blackhawk is just as crazy, but she's on the opposite end of the spectrum. She thinks that South Dakota doesn't have a huntable population of lions. In my opinion, The state needs to set a reasonable quota of lions with a subquota of females. Then they would know exactly how many lions were going to get killed before season even started. Right now their quota is 35 total lions or 15 females, whichever comes first. If they set a quota of 25 males and 5 females I think it would manage their population more effectively. If they wanted to, they could even sell chase permits in addition to licenses. But that's just my opinion.

Another reason the Wyoming units that border the Black Hills fill so fast is that Wyoming sells liopn tags over the counter to nonresidents all through the deer and elk seasons. So if a hunter on the South Dakota side happens to see a lion when hes out deer hunting in October, before SD lion season opens, he can shoot it and drive 20 miles to buy a Wyoming lion tag and report it there. I was lion hunting in Wyoming this fall and put on about 150 miles in a fairly small hunting unit and saw one other lion hunter and he said that he hadn't seen anybody other than us, but when I checked the quota the next day there were 5 lions killed that day in that unit. Now I'm not saying there wasn't any other guys with dogs out there, but I think it's pretty obvious that not all those cats were killed in that little unit.

[roscosrokons]

Doogie, Thanks for posting the correct information on here. Its funny how people can get bad info and then run with it before they really know the facts. It also strikes me as being funny that someone would state that the same guys that are killing all the cats in S.D. with hounds are coming over to Wyoming and doing the same thing. I think someone really needs to get there facts straight before they post such garbage. I'm guessing that the Biologist that said that S.D. guys are coming over to Wyoming and practicing bad hunting ethics must be the same one that started the rumor that we can use hounds over here. I guess all I can do is laugh at that one. I'd like to share a story with you guys. This is not a story to rat someone out but more of a story to let people know the kind of hunter I try to be.
I've been hunting lions over in Wyoming for about the last 15 years. I buy a tag about every year just so I can go over there and run my hounds. Over that time span I have taken two cats, a 150 lb male and a 142lb male. It isn't even fun to go over there anymore though. The first snow in the fall and you better be over there pounding the roads because sure as hell the unit will be shut down within a couple weeks. I don't know who's getting all the cats but I can tell you who isn't. Anyway one day me and a friend of mine treed a small cat up in the bearlodge area. Earlier that day we had ran into a young man from that area that was driving around with a hound in the pickup with him. He wasn't having much luck finding a track so we invited him to run with us. So we treed this small cat. Me and my friend went in to leash the dogs and leave, the young man asked why we were not going to shoot the cat. We explained to him that it was a young cat and that it was not a good one to take. He seemed to understand and grabbed his dog and we left. A few days later me and my friend went back over to hunt some more and found out that that guy had went back in and shot that young cat after we had left. It still burns me everytime I think about that. Sorry for the long story. And no we can not hunt lions with hounds in S.D. Ross

[Scratch]

rosco

Apparently, you did'nt read the post either. Because I never said anything about hunting ethics. So don't put words in my mouth. If people are killing young lions with hounds or with a predator calls, thats not good hunting ethics. And you're right I should have got all my facts in line however, I went with what the Biologist told me in person. I never said anything bad about South Dakota Houndsman and I don't have a problem with you guys coming over here to Wyoming and hunting with you're dogs. More power to you. If I were in you shoes I'd do the same.

And you said it you're self it upset you when you found out that young hunter went back and killed that cat. A few unethical hunters can ruin it for everyone.

Good Hunting

Scratch

[Doogie]

yeah ya did

.......
The so called houndsmen over there why are you killing 5-7 month old kittens and all those females. Out of thirteen cats taken eight are females, mostly under the age of 2.......

went right to blaming the houndsmen without reading the regs first. If you would of known that they cant hunt lions with dogs in SD would this post even exist, dont think so

[Scratch]

South Dakota has killed a lion a day since the new year, I find that hard to believe without the aid of dogs. I know there isn't a lion behind every tree. The Black Hills aren't all that big, you keep killing all those females and you will be bitchin that you can't find a track in a few years and that will also happen on the other side of the border. Kill all the cats you want, but in the long run you won't have any.

In Montana don't you have to draw for a tag? Never used to be that way...

Scratch

[Doogie]

region 1 and 2 went to permits, cause everyone needed 4 or 5 lion rugs, and oufitters need to make clients happy. The rest of the state is OTC but they have to be bought by Augest 31. They all have a female sub quota. If you look at the harvest map region 3 in MT has alot of districts closeing while 90% of region 1 & 2 disticts are still wide open

W SD just got out of a loooong drought, meening less deer and less food for lions. If your a lion are you going to go after a easy dinner or one you have to work for??

Thats the reason they want to be allowed to use dogs so they can better manage the lions. Untill that happens they are going to reach the feamle sub quota before they get close to the quota. If they keep piling up the females your right they will not have a season anymore. Seems to me this year SD, like in WY the attatitue is set the quota so high there will be none left in a year or two. Last year I think there was only a female quota of 9. Lets help these boys out, write a letter to Pierre about sound lion management with the use of dogs. No ones arguing about ethics you came on here blaming Houndsmen for killing kittens and females, when they are not allowed to hunt them in the first place.

Rosco & friends say the wardens keep a close eye on the Houndsmen out there running bobs, big no no if your caught running lions. So I doubt any are being killed above dogs.

[Scratch]

Well Gentlemen

I went back and reread my post and I opologize if it sounded like I was calling out S.D. Houndsman and pointing a finger at you guys...and it did. Next time I'll get my facts straight before I sound off and not go by one mans word. Plus I'll make sure I'm awake and quite posting at 4am.

Doogie,Rosco and Sammy, thanks for setting me straight and headed down the track in the right direction. I opologize if I step on anyone toes.

Good Hunting and may the track be fresh.

Scratch