trash running and genetics?

[bad moon]

someone told me the other day that running trash is something that can be bred out of a stain of dogs and that there are alot of stains already out there that tend to be way less trashy than others. i found this hard to believe because a hounds natural instincts are to sniff and chase and will do it on all game until taught different . also one mans trash may be the next mans game. there are hound running virtually every type of critter out there. any ways i was just curious as to every one elses opinions?

[Everlast]

Not sure how true it is, but here in California there have always been people who said that black and tans were the "least trashiest dogs" a man could hunt. ( but I don't know many guys that hunt black and tans in my area)

[houndcrazyfool]

my thought on that is just some dogs have more brains and are easier to keep control of...

[Mike Leonard]

Those California Black and Tans must be different than the ones I had in New Mexico. LOL!

I raised a lot of registered black and tans and some of them were great dogs. But I never found a single strain that wasn't pretty trashy to start with and some of them hard head black hearted buggers were flat impossible to get 100% broke. My Black Jack dog was on tons of game and he was a catch dog, but oh boy did he love to run coyotes. I mean I shocked the fire out of him so many times and even at 6 years old he would burn a coyote track, and he was fast he even caught a few and then didn't know what to do. I finally caught him on a hard run one evening and he had that coyote lined out and it swam a narrow creek and about the time Jack hit the middle of the creek I slammed that Tri-Tronics button down full throttle. I guess it was the water or being wet but it lit him up so much he quit the race and disappeared . I found him all the way at home later in his dog box shivering like he had seen a ghost. that was his last coyote race but he wasn't the only trash burning black and tan I had.


Most all of them will run trash to start with and if they get the right game the right handling and enough hunting most of them can be convinced to give up most of the junk. But I would never bet 100% on any dog becasue about the time you do you get egg on your face.

I heard one guy saying he has bred trash out of his line of walker dogs, but even though I am not from Missouri he would have to show me to make a beleiver out of me.

[Everlast]

10-4 on that. Been around many campfires and heard that about black and tans being easy to break or just not very trashy.

[Everlast]

You make me cringe when you say that "C" word Coyote. It seems it is a never ending task trying to break my dogs off of those damn things. I think part of the problem is I run allot of grey fox and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference when they first strike the track unless you can see the coyote or they run the hell out of the track and don't make any loses.

Rule of thumb around here is if you start having lots of good races but aren't treeing anything, you better pay a little closer attention to the tracks those dogs are start'n...........

[bluedog4]

My lead dog hasn't trashed on anything in 4 years, well I bragged all season on how straight Old Buck was, he never was very trashy unlike his father, I turned him and number two loose on a two day old melted out Lion track this winter and the boys worked it for about two miles slow enough to keep with-in hearing range and then big big bawl from both of them (They got the big lion jumped) NO they got the big cow moose jumped. I caught them both half an hour later and 6 miles away on my quad (Man did there necks hurt) They sure like Moose smell!

[Big N' Blue]

I am very lucky to have 5 dogs that are 90% straight in straight company, but if you start it I will help you run it!!!! LOL

[Nolte]

Mike, I hear ya. Those Black dogs must be different than some of the ones I've had. Judas Priest I spent a lot of hours trying to convince a few of them to not run split hoofs and white tails.

Some dogs break hard, some easy and some just don't. But it seems some of those extra hard ones turn out be great dogs once you reign them in.

[twist]

Can not be done. No strain is trash free in the first place who told their hound what is trash and what isnt? Some strains are easier to train and excel at certain things better than others but to say their strain is trash free they must be drinking jmo Andy

[Everlast]

Yeah.........I always take what I hear with a grain of salt. I have personally never found that any strain of dog was more or less trashy than another strain.

I think some of those stories I heard about the black and tans were from old timers that were raised back east and came to California during the dust bowl. Maybe just an old "wives tale" they brought with them?????

Sure wish there was an old tale like that floating around out there about walker dogs

[Dan Edwards]

No strain of hound has been bred as of yet to be totally trash free that I know of anyhow but I can definately attest to lines that are born pretty much trash free and there is a reason for that and that reason is absolutely these dogs biggest fault. They are "TREE DOGS" with a capital T and that is why they very rarely run trash. I know alot of you big game fellas dont see the kind of dog I am talkin about very often cause we live in two entirely different worlds but these kind of dogs do exist and yes they are holsteins for the most part. And no they do not usually make very pleasurable dogs to own and no they are not very accurate and if you are not careful they may never tree another coon again after about two years old cause they have a terrible tendancy to beat the coon to the tree every time. You do not want to go petting these dogs up at the tree when they are 5 months old cause I can assure you that they do not need your praise cause they were born to tree. I pretty much hate them by the way. LOL!

Have a drink on me.

[DerekE]

I like a pup that wants to run SOMETHING. I'll show him what is trash and what is not.
Derek

[Mike Leonard]

Dan,

You are right on the money again. Holy Smokes some of these dogs have so much tree in them these days if you reach up and break off a limb walking thru they will grab the wood and go to knocking. Not very long around me they won't but I have seen it.

I have seen so many guys knock themselves out tree training young dogs. I mean pull the rolling cage up and then let it down and then up and down around and know the routine. A little of that goes a long way and you can over do that in a hurry.

I had a guy that use to hunt with and he had a blue dog that potentially was one of the best lion hounds I ever saw. This dog had an ice cold nose, moved a track well, had a great mouth, and wasn't trashy and handled good. Just a real nice type of dog, but he had one problem, he had tree trained old Blue so hard that he would go stone blind at the tree. Once he got on the tree and it didn't take much another dog check one and he was going to hammer it. A lion or bear could come down that tree and just about push him out of the way to hit the ground and leave and Blue would not pay any attention he was chopping wood and slinging slobber. But his owner had worked him so much on the tree with caged cats and coons way up past the time he ws a puppy that he could not be trusted. You make one of those marathon walks in the canyon from hell and find old blue locked up on a slick tree and there is no getting him to go on the track he loses his appeal really fast.

I am not saying I don't want a dog to tree, because I want the dog to accuratly locate and bark treed. But most smart dogs figure this out and it is bred in them if you have to really do a ton of tree training on your big game dogs you better switch dogs.

[mike martell]

mike leonard was that walker guy from missouri or arizona?i know this strain of hounds used on lions that is advertised to not run off game. all are genetically pure except the one's i feed that are line bred the same lol.... i have never had a naturally clean dog............. ever! this strain is no exception.some dogs are more intellegent than others as previously stated.monkey see monkey do generally applies.keep a dog in clean company and it will stay clean until an oppertunity to decieve you arrives. generally this is how hunting goes.remember this, bullshit your friends! never your self when it comes to a hound.