trash running and genetics?

[Cowboyvon]

You know blueticker doesn't make sense to those of us that free cast our dogs.... we expect our dogs to show us the track.. that doesn't mean they are trash broke by genetics but I do believe you should get into a line that has a preference for what your wanting to run..

I know I don't and I believe most bare ground hunters that freecast their dogs don't "put there dogs down" on a track.. sometimes we have to cross lots and lots of coyote,deer,elk and all other kinds of tracks to get to a lion track.. and believe me I have had the fox races to prove it and a few coyote races but its my job to try and determine whats what or at least be able to read my dogs and have a good enough handle on them to stop it before it gets out of hand...

[Mike Leonard]

Von,

You are right on in my book.

Hey Big Mike, I am a bird dog man and I knew Steve Matthes and you are CORRECT A MUNDO!

Steve worked on the little red dogs and they dang sure were cat minded. Yes they would run a gray fox like his fur was on fire, and bear as well if encourged. If you fired them up on bushy tails in the tall trees they would handle that too, but they were bent pretty hard on the feline scent. Much is the same as the later day strain of old the late Lester Nance. Once Little Topper moved to the top of the game with back to back wins as the bobcat dog to beat, many began to breed and shape dogs around this old strain that was also used to run everything from fox to rabbit in the formitive years.

As old Dub Evens the Owner of the Slash Ranch and author of my favorite big game hounds book. Slash Ranch Hounds said. You can take a dog you have a handle on and has the intelligence and the breeding and TRAIL WHAT YOU WANT. DUB TRAILED DOWN LOST HORSES, AND CATTLE AND THE NEXT DAY RAN LIONS WITH THE SAME HOUNDS.Montague Steven Author of Meet Mr. Grizzley said the same thing and even trailed down bands of lost sheep and rustlers with his hounds.Most folks don't spend that much time with their hounds these days to really get to know the true potential these critters have.

[DerekE]

When you get a line of dogs that can be broke with just a couple of lessons I don't believe it's because it's in their genetics to run a particular game. It's because they are bred to be smart so they are more likely to learn what you want and less likely to forget it.

Also, as far as "cat minded" it's a pretty common belief among cat hunters from TX to the east coast that once a dog starts catching bobcat he would rather run a cat than anything else and can be broke off of other game pretty easily from there. These are mostly running type dogs. I've seen several guys take grey fox dogs or even coyote dogs and put them in a cat pack. After putting some cats on them it's not that hard to break them off of that other game.

Derek

[pete richardson]

ive heard guys claim that hounds were naturally trash free--seen some that almost were --- very easy to keep straight - easily broke if they did trash -i think theres more claimed to be , than there actually is - --im not even sure its a good thing-----maybe i want to use that hound for something else-

extreme desire and naturally straight may be opposite traits

I do believe you should get into a line that has a preference for what your wanting to run..

now that , i believe in---


ever seen a pup just go balistic the first time he smelled a cat
or a bear hes been breathing before this --he has smelled game - but nothing made him crazy like that before i get warm all over when i see pup like that



there is something to that natural preference being bred in and thats about as far as i believe in it-

the bird dog thing is a good example ---born bird crazy -- you might get one to run a deer or even tree a coon but many are just naturally born " birdy "

ive had dogs with a natural preference for moose , porcupine , coon is the worst -took me their whole lives to get them bent - , never trusted them --they can make you old fast -


if im hunting bear ,coon is trash--
coon are a pain - we have coon everywhere we have bear , they eat the same feed at same time-just to make it worse, i sometimes start pups on coon-


-sometimes ---i can start pups on coon before or after bear season---now they run coon -but that beats "anything with a heartbeat "


some make the switch to bear very easy - may never have to be broke off coon

- others-- im fighting something thats been bred into them a, extremely hard to get broke off coon

[Frontier]

Ok , Here's some more food for thought . In my short little hunting career I've seen and watched a pile of good game catch'n coon and cat dogs , put on a fresh bear track alone or with other hounds and you would have thought they were the most naturally ( or instinctivly ) bear broke hounds you ever saw! Had never seen a bear or even hunted in bear country or had a bad experience! All in fun Guy's - let's here some more. Great post!
Frontier

[Frontier]

I've seen them damb near tear the tailgate down to get back in the truck.
Frontier
Maybe those were the smartest of all the hounds - I'm sure of it!

[Frontier]

Pete, you have me a little confused here - and thats not to hard to do. Are you telling me if you strike or tree a coon during bear season you come down on them like its trash? I don't know to much but when I'm hunt'n I expect my hounds to strike, trail, and tree any of the 4 animals I hunt. It's up to me to figure what they struck or what thier trailing. When I'm after a specific animal I'll hunt different locations or different feed areas. When I'm bear hunting and strike a bobcat or get to the tree and they have a long tail I leash'm up and pet'm on the head. Maybe your trash and mine are a little different cause when I think "trash" my hounds think it's the end of the world! Just wondering how you get them to hunt the animal of the season. Hell I learn something every day.
Frontier

[spruce mountain]

You no the old saying one man's trash is another man's treasure.If my dog's tree a coon it's treated like any other trash.I have one dog that I run on cat's and he's a good bear dog but I don't use him to start bear track's.If I wanted a coon dog I would take one dog and make a coon dog out of it.I'm sure it kind of depend's on wether you are guiding or not,Client's don't like walking in to a tree and looking at a coon.I can also see If your not a guide and you can't aford to have a bunch of dog's you'd want them to be multi purpose.I get a kick out of these ad's that say this dog is strait,and then go on to say he tree's coon and bear.Im sure alot of people would consider that strait,but there are some that would'nt.

[The Ole' Guy]

Don't guess I've ever seen a BROKE dog,though I've heard of a couple from people you could believe.I figure I'm in pretty good shape if I keep mine well BENT!!

[spruce mountain]

I agree ole guy every time I've tried to call one broke it has made a lier out of me.I've heard of some but never owned one.

[bad moon]

i have put a little research into this matter and found an interesting fact. the natural instincts out of any working or hunting breed can be completley bred out of the line in as little as two generations of non working parents. if that is in fact true than that tells me a pup inherits some sort of knowledge or instinct from its parents. therefore if both parents are solid cat dogs can they pass that trait off to there young?

[pete richardson]

Pete, you have me a little confused here - and thats not to hard to do. Are you telling me if you strike or tree a coon during bear season you come down on them like its trash?

dogs yes ,,, pups no

its ok ,, im confused myself-

last few years ive had good luck starting pups on coon and just switching them to bear-
not a ton of effort needed to break them off coon and sometimes none

-- in the past ive had dogs i tried to break off coon their whole lives and bent was best i ever got them --

when a dog trees a coon but doesnt bark---- and you can walk in by the treeing switch on beeper ---and find a girdled tree -- with a coon in it --- lucky if u get a glimpse of that dog headed to hide under the truck ---
still trees em-- but wont bark--- ---that dog really likes her coon --




pups born in spring . i run a few coon with them in training season , and then hunt them on coon for a few weeks their first fall ,

i dont like to push half grown pups hard on bear -- but i do like them started on something --- coon is all i got

it depends on their age whether i run them on coon at all -

if full grown when season starts, then i may skip coon altogether - i wish i could always do that - but i cant stand a dog over a year thats not started

thats the reality of haveing a 5 month season and 12 months in a year

[Frontier]

Pete, were not so much different - I should have looked at where you hail from . The kind of country I hunt is probly 180 deg opposite. It would be a tough hunt getting a coon in 80% of the areas I hunt. I see your point if you have more coon than bear. The country I hunt is dry with alot of open souths and timbered norths, rocky and very steep. Back to the point - I see the compitition hunting side of it, and I guess thats why I Hunt Big game. Here's my funny short story - Twice I entered a dog in a night hunt. First hunt I was disqualified for treeing a bear and the second time I entered was disqualified for treeing a possum - might not have been disqualified if I hadn't shook it out to my dog . That was the end of my night hunting career - hell I'd never seen a live possum and my hound hadn't either . But he instinctivly new what to do with that ugly thing when it hit the ground . You ever get a chance to come out west with them dogs, get ahold of me I could use a lesson!
Frontier

[briarpatch]

Pete, I have been viewing this site for 3 or 4 years now and I do not recall ever disagreeing with anything you wrote. You are to the point, succinct and without bile.

Please keep it up.

briarpatch

[MAC]

My dogs are 100% broke! Well at least for the past three weeks . Have not got out out damn time.