getting a trail dog to tree

[sawtooth]

What is the best way to get an awesome trail dog to tree better? I got one that just seems to like the excitment of trailing over treeing.

[Mike Leonard]

How old is he? What line is he? what did his parents do? and how much fur has he seen?

[sawtooth]

Well he's one year old, and probably half Jeff Allen stock. I don't personally know his parents. He hasn't seen any big game, just house cats. He is doing really well with the scent training that I learned from reading your cat training article.

[OB.284]

.

[Everlast]

You'd be amazed how much more excited he would get if one of those house cats were "balled up" on his face...........But I don't reccommend it

[catcher]

i like those type of dogs. if you put enough game in front of him he will figure it out. try running your trainers in an area with small trees or shrubs it will help him figure it out.

[Mike Leonard]

Yes good advice. Most of the dogs Jeff breeds out of the old stock are strong early trail dogs but I have never seen on out of his good crosses that didn't turn out to be a decent tree dogs. But then again I want dogs to locate naturally and then tree so showing him some game up the tree should bring it out. I don't like to do a lot of tree training on dogs if they don't come to it naturally after they have been on some game and get up to a year and a hald old I would consider selling orgiving him to a coyote hunter and getting a locating tree dog that trails. Too many of todays competition bred dogs have so much tree in them if you tree train them to much they have the habit of beating the game to the tree if you know what I mean.

[fox hunter]

alot of my dogs are half or better running dog so im used to a dog takeing a little longer to tree these type that dont naturaly tree dont take you to many slikes alot of dogs at about 18 months old just flip and start treeing

[Cold Track]

This pups dad and grandad are half Nance, they are both out of Topper again not Jeffs old strain. I know this dogs dad is as cold a nosed dog as they get and is a trailing machine, but he is also a good tree dog. He should come around if you keep putting him under game and trainers. When Mike got the two Topper bred dogs Jeff still owned Topper, and I think that is where the thinking they were Allen bred came from.

[KattTraxx]

Well,
Based on my limited experience.. It is harder to get a tree dog to trail than it is to get a trail dog to tree.. If a dog will trail, and trail well, that is the biggest part of the battle for me. I believe the treeing will come in short order.. Good Luck.. KattSkatt

[Mike Leonard]

I understand the logic that I may have presumed these Topper dogs were of Jeff Allen breeding. Might have been but Jeff has been breeding walker cross dogs of the old strain long before he ever knew of Topper.
Jeff and I go back a long ways and we have traded dogs and hunted together for a long time. Jeff is as I am very impressed with the Nance bred walkers and we feel that Topper Again has made a huge contribution to the longevity of the project that Lester Nance of Indiana took on over 60 years ago. These dogs bred properly are natural tree dogs with tons of desire to trail and the ability to go with it. Too many of today's hounds folk have been only influenced by tree dogs bred out of competition dogs who will trail some because of their ancestory. Do not be mistaken for the most part very few of these dogs will actually cold trail. They have been chosen and selectively bred for other attributes.

Jeff Allen's old strain that I spoke 0f had nothing to do with Topper Again but had some old Nance influence from many years before as well as blood from Jack Butler, Arnold Button, Wiley Carroll, Charlie Tant, Milt Holt, Smoke Emmit, Leon Cox and Stan Meacham. These dogs are trail hounds that are bred , trained, culled and shot for their in-ability to bring home the bacon on big game.They have to make it happen and they will locate and tree.

[twist]

Take Cold Tracks advise.

[Mr.pacojack]

What is the best way to get an awesome trail dog to tree better? I got one that just seems to like the excitment of trailing over treeing.

I have 2 Jeff Allen bred dogs and they have alot more track than tree. Not the greatest locaters either.I like them they are nice dogs but I do hate their tree.
I have seen alot of "Big Game Bred Dogs" That have more track than tree. I think if you pay close enough attention to dogs you will see that the biggame hunters tend to breed for more track than tree and the coon hunter tend to breed for more tree than track.
That being said , I have to laugh, Mike you make it sound as if the Nance breed of dogs are some kind of special breed of biggame hounds, As far as I can tell Lester Nance used them on coons and they have just worked well on biggame, correct?

[tntoutfitting]

PACOJACK: Geez bud, first you go and pick on the Garmin Astro lovers, now stir up the intentions of coon dog breeders from days gone by.......sure to light a fire or two with this topic I bet

Hope all is well, give you a shout soon.........gotta go outside and look at my dogs (what the heck are they now, 'coondogs that hunt biggame or biggame dogs that look like a 'coonhound) either way, I'm hollaring at that speckled one and the big leggy tri-color to "SHUT UP" as its bed time

[Mike Leonard]

Paco,

You are correct on the Nance dogs Lester actually bred them for coon and fox in the beginning. And they were not treeing walkers then but he and Raymond Motely did register the first ever litter of what they convinced the UKC were the original Treeing Walkers. Before this only recognized them as English Fox & coonhounds.


I don't really think too many big game hunters were aquanted with the Nance dogs for a long time other than bear hunters from Michagan Wisconson and eastern states. I beleive when Little Topper won back to back world Bobcat Championships and Bob Morosok of Sheridan Wyoming purchased him was when they began to be noticed more by western big game hunters. Interesting enough Marvin Glenn , Warner's father switched and went to all walkers in the late 1950's and early 60's. After helping make the Disney Movie ( the Wetback Hound). He originally bought his foundation dogs from Lester Nance out of Little Topper, Joe House out of House's Bawlie, and John Monroe out of Finley River Cheif.I have a set of the original Glenn cross papers and the Nance Topper dogs was the only one doubled back on in those early years.I beleive, Bob Morosok the Glenns and and Al Lynn probably had a lot to do with the surge of popularity of the Treeing Walkers for western big game hounds.I think that Martin Clem of Arizona also had a lot of influence with the White Cloud line.

But I think in all reality the biggest influence on the number of Treeing Walkers used for big game has to go back to their popularity as coon dogs. there are so many more coon hunters than big game hunters and all this crossing and winning made this breed much more numerous than the other breeds. So the end result is you have more good treeing walkers and you also have more worthless ones.


But as they say it is what it is.