suppoprt oregon hound hunting

[mike martell]

or bow, rand. first off i want the odfw to either stop harvesting lions or use the sportsmen. the sportsmen who buy lic. and tags are also the source of their tax money. the use of hounds by odfw is the same weather you hire a hunter or use private houndsmen. the use of the private sector generates them revenue. hounds are hounds and harvesting is just that.the controlled method cost tax paying citizens a small fortune.they will contend using private hunters is using unskilled hunters.as for the black bear it would not be half bad if odfw allowed the hunters to knock themselves out and in the end are not successful then do what you have to do.this works just fine with them in opening the gates for elk and deer hunters. i can't draw a tag in oregon to hunt bear.i fully understand the reason they use private trappers rather than the hunters. it is a real hard pill for me to swallow after we lost our dog hunting in oregon over ethics and this is what took the place of hounds. do you as a sportsman favor the killing of sows and cubs? female lions and kittens? they sure do.all that would have to happen is just what you all did prior to the ban. harvest a dry female or leave them alone

[hounddude]

Mike

I would think if you could get out to the general public. Through TV, Raido or news paper adds how bears are being snared sows, cubs or what ever's caught. The average person that voted against hound hunting would have a change of heart. It's a crying shame the department that's there to help sportsman is giving sportsmen the bone. Mark

[mike martell]

mark, thanks for the input. this evening i had the phone ringing off the hook. i have a small army behind this process. i have conceded my way is not the best, just happens to get the ball rolling.several other concerned hunters have thrown in. from now on it will be a majority issue. we will take this to salem on the 13 th. we will debate the best solution for the problem and present it to the legislature. thank you to each and everyone who has phoned and pledged your support. we can be heard. we elected these folks to represent us. we can unelect them just as fast.

[griff]

The 13th will be here quick. If you can take the time to read this you can take the time to send an email to your elected officials. Gather some signatures and send them to Mike. This may be our last shot. Unite and support.

[mike martell]

thanks griff. i had a conversation with ld last night. he suggested a contingent plan to hit salem with on the 13th. one of an alternative plan for hunting with a direct solution that not only is more ethical but eliminates the use of tax payer dollars. we can gather signatures all summer and really make a statement. it would have been nice to have petitions signed to take along but time is not on our side. besides it will be cool to present them with thousands of signatures and really rock them hard. once we educate the public even many of those that voted in favor of the ban will go along with hunting hounds. i have recieved flaming mad e-mails from people who say the odfw is not representing the hunters period and will not stand for this.we are having a grass roots meeting for concerned citizens,we went from setting up this meeting at a local coffee shop to now needing a gym at a local school to accomidate all those that have had it with odfw.i may be wrong about this but so far the ratio of people that favor this plan is running 99 to 1. we are about 200 strong locally and growing by the minute. the ironic part is we have a base of 90% non dog hunting folks who are just fed up with fish and game.

[LDcloud]

Hey any one see on the new last night. that a lion tore up a basset hound in the city of mcminnville ?? I senn the new foot age channel 6 cbs and 2 katu

[U.R.E.]

I’m glad to see some people are getting motivated enough to take some action. Given the current political climate this may be the time to take action.

Keep in mind the Oregon voters are the ultimate decision makers on this issue. Going after ODF&W or any elected official will likely prove futile. Going against the “will” of the people would be political suicide for any official(s). This is especially true of an issue that has been shot down twice by Oregon voters. Oregon voters where manipulated by an effective campaign run by anti-hunting groups. They (antis) understand that emotions drive behavior, not numbers, not logic. In other word voters had an emotional response to the media campaign that compelled them to vote against us. I have reviewed their strategy(s) very close and found they used no data only emotional response in their media campaign. I feel we will benefit our goal if we use the same strategy. It is cheaper and more effective than data; although we do have data to present to select audiences. If we are to be taken seriously we need Oregon voters to be backing us. This includes, not excludes OHA, SCI, RMEF and other organizations. These groups have money, are voters and can help gather community support.
Gathering signature is a step along the way but has its own governed procedure that must be followed to be valid in the eyes of the state.
If we can get past the blame game and keep our eye on the ball we may have a shot. As long as we continue focus on blame and argue over the weather we are doing little more than wiping our butts with a hula hoop.
As for the houndsmen who are helping ODF&W meet management objectives (MO), I personally harbor no ill feelings towards you. You can help us in a couple ways. 1) By being very professional. 2) Keep records and by taking video and picture footage.

[mike martell]

u.r.e. thanks for the input. come on readers weigh in with what you think. this is not about me. i'm willing to stick to the cause and push for some change's. we have the golden oppertunity to get some of our right's back because things are economically tight. no budget money for nothing. it will be a matter of educating the voter with the fact's. petitions will show the support of the oregonians.do any of you guy's think this should be a topic of discussion at the ousda meeting? i would not mind talking about this issue. i just don't want odfw to blend this with ousda? what do you all think?

[Buddyw]

50% that voted to hunt for the state last year at the annual meeting would compromise with us.

First, I'd like to Clarify The Vote that you speak about was a questiong,
(should we Ban any member that works with the State) Or something simular?

It was an honest question and good intentions.. and we allowed it to got to vote of everyone did, and it failed, but it was damn near a 50/50 vote. Does that mean that folks who voted against it want to hunt for the State as you suggest.. (IMO Absoulutey not..) We had members sitting amonst ourselves like Ted Craddok who has hunted and helped the state for years and years for studies in eastern oregon. A hell of a Dog man in his own right I'm not positive but I'm sure a founder of OUSDA who fought Ruthelessly during the ban in 94 and has fought with us every single fight.

If that would have passed, who was going to tell him that he needed to leave the room?

It was a loaded question, And I personally was not about to ask a man such as Ted Craddock to Leave the room. Does that mean that I want to hunt for the state.. No it does not.

The next questiong, What about folks that Hunt Bears for timber companies.. Should those folks be Banned next? (what's the difference right?) There goes another large portion of our the group that would have been asked to leave the room.

That question was not about hunting for the state, that question was directly should we as a group ban someone from the group because of their Personal Decision and how they hunt and where they hunt if we don't agree with it. State, timber companies, Tribal land, What about if the local warden asks you for help with a problem cat.. ?? It was a slippery Slope that divided us further.

That was the question asked, and it was not a well thought out rule, and 1/2 the people didn't like the rule. IT WAS NOT about People wanting to HUNT FOR THE STATE on the cougar plan.

It was about Dividing our group further. and it failed.

About this post.. Yes We need to get something rolling, But we need a Plan. Is your Plan to go to the legilation this session? or wait until the next session in 2011? What is it that you are exactly proposing.

We need TEXT (not words) to the meeting later this month,

I will garantee that if you bring a document, with a Plan and text of a proposal to change the law, or Regulation. You will be heard and get a Vote on your idea.

If it's a good enough Plan I will also garantee you that we can get some $$ allocated to that cause, If nothing more than to pay fuel for your trips to Salem to see it through, To pay for Advertisments, Flyers, etc. But only if it's a Good thought out plan that is ready.

Everyone knows we need to do something, But no-one can layout what the next step is.

My vote is cougars, and Bird nesting. But I'm not sure how to go about it.

[U.R.E.]

Step 1) Develop a SMART plan or goal that is supported by the effected population.

SMART Plan: Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Rrelevant, Time framed.

[orbowhunter1971]

A plan was what I was referring to earlier in this post.

Walking into Salem with some signatures stating that Fish and Game sucks will get the issue nowhere.

First step is to look at the Cougar Plan itself.

The cougar plan was mandated for ODFW to complete by the Governor.

I think the educated proposal is to insist that ODFW approach the plan with adaptive management. This is where Mike talks about the indiscriminate killing of problems animals, females and young toms. It has to be presented with facts, not a letter with thousands of people who are pissed at a state agency. They will simply say the voters have spoken twice.

Adaptive management calls for a review of the current MANAGEMENT OBJECTIVE (another gripe Mike brought up with the current plan), and make suggestions on how to improve management of a game species through a public and professional review. The plan has been implemented for over two years and human cougar conflicts have risen not gone down.

Mike, I would definately try to bring up the topic of Adaptive Management with the lawmakers, and shift the focus to science and economics, instead of blaming.

The current cost per year to implement the cougar plan, with the use of 2 full Wildlife service employees is over $364,000 for 2 years, that covers direct and indirect costs. The states budget is allocated in 2 year terms. The problem with the cost to taxpayer arguement is that cougar tag sales have increased with the sportsman pac. Revenue from cougar tag sales is $264,000 a year. So the state will tell you it is fiscally accountable and within management objectives.

Again, the proposal has to attack the science of the plan itself. The anti's are well educated and respond to emotion , as well as, sound science. The educated claim that the cougar plan in Washington is better because their state does not kill like Oregon, and follows good science. Problem is that the cougar populations in Wash and the cougar populations in Oregon have clear and distinct differences in regards to numbers, habitat, age structure of the population, and most importantly population numbers.

I appreciate your work and hope you consider including adaptive management in your proposal. If you approached with a calling for sound science to justify the killing, ODFW would be standing in so many feet of shit a a crane could not pull them out.

Oh and by the way, ODFW is seeking a fee increase this year in the Legislature, attack that rigorously. If hunting opportunity is down, game pops are down, why should the public pay more for less.

[mike martell]

guy's i hear you loud and clear. do any of you know rich beausoleil of wash fish and game? i have his management plan. don't know if this works for us or not this is some scientific data he has used.let's hear your input on this. orbow. i agree with your strategy. the reason for doing this now is simple, we have waited for 15 years with a few failed attempts.no one has moved forward and acted. maybe this isn't even the right time? when is the right time ?and who does what? we can execute a plan for cougar and bird nesting right now. maybe we should have a meeting somewhere and work out a game plan. this is not about me. i'm going to act as the messenger.i'm going to do something. i'm just convinced over the last 15 years we have accomplished squat. what say you?

[Dennis Fisher]

I wish you guys all the luck in the world with this. But if you guys don't mind alittle refreshment of your States past, I thought this would bring back several memories. You guys lost your right to hunt both Lion and Bear because of the will of the people in the Inititive of 94. And your attempt won't be your first at trying to get your right to hunt back. Once again, good luck and this is how they beat off your attempt last time.

http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publicati ... re_18.html

[U.R.E.]

We are still in the same water. Oregon voters have said twice "no" to sport hunting cougars and bears with hounds. Present all the info you want but it will be likely be futile. The current "cougar plan" uses "public safty" as a lever to justify what is being done.

It is illegal to pursue cougars and bears with hounds in Oregon. If that law is not abolished altogether we can only expect more of the same.

[bluedogs]

yes they the public have said no twise ok so we keep going learn from our mistakes from the last two times change things around maybe use more pictures and videos, some of you said we need more facts that make the average bleeding heart in oregon thank that we are trying to save the baby bears and baby lions. we need the public, i suport everthing that you all are doing and think its crap that they use our tax dollars, we need also need lots of money we need to get support from all the clubs/ and big companies we can every one bird dog clubs ranchers, farmers, gundog clubs, ect.... the moer the maryer. and with them maybe we can get more money to fight this.
as for the plan i think mike if you show diffrent states proposed plans and then show that they are working better then oregons plan is. then make up a plan for oregon using diffrent methods that other states are using all wrapped up in to ong good plan and present that maybe that would help. idk though i'll do anything i can to help though