Hair pulling

[Curby]

mike leonard, gotta say u take a leisurely, scenic and round about way to making a point..

but its a worthwhile trip..

[Mike Leonard]

Curby,

I appreciate that and in reality if you go thru a country and take the back roads and the sceneic routes you really get to know it an appreciate it, but the inerstate is faster.


The road less traveled to outdoors folks is always the most memorable. Remember life is short and like somebody said it is not about how many times you breath but how many times you breath is taken away for a moment.


I spoke to a lifelong Utah resident the other evening who was conducting a cougar survey. We discussed areas and topography and landmarks. I asked this person if they had ever spent much time in Utah's red rock country. No never have been there much just drove thru on the highway. I asked ever been to the Grand Canyon? Oh my yes many times. How did you like it well it is awesome country but that is in Arizona. Well did you go to Bryce on the way? Well no we thought about it but it is a little out of the way for us. I said take that little bit of time next time and I bet you will discover that it is as magnificent as the big hole in the ground and even more charming in it's own way.


So it's the sceneic route for me, because you will always remember things so much better.

[spruce mountain]

Curby great post,you hit the nail right on the head.Thier is alot more to a top bear dog than grit.This is true for me and I'm am sure it would be true for most people on hear that the best most consistant bear dog's they have seen have not been the grittiest dogs that they have seen.Its hard to be consistant when your laying at home nursing wounds.If the dogs can hold the bears without getting hurt you usaully can get that bear,If the dogs go out and get pounded you usaully loose the bear.

[sow flat slim]

Mike and Curby, very very well said.

[larry]

Guess I missed the meeting where it was decided that gritty dogs were dumb? I'm pretty sure that smart gritty dogs can go quite a while before getting hurt, and put up the bears that seem to "outrun"(run off) the trail dogs

[Smiley]

Desire coupled with intelligence, grit , mental and physical toughness are to me what separates good bear dogs from Top Bear dogs (imo) . To me It is the mental toughness and the desire to make contact on a mean run you off the mountain type bear that makes the difference in top dogs . Fact is these type dogs are hard to find unlike what some try to tell you .
I am not talking stupid dogs that will bulldoze a bear, but dogs that are smart enough to know the bear they are on and still make contact when available , and these type of dogs will make it available .
To many people confuse what a dog will do on coon lion moose ect.... and how gritty dogs are on on these but dogs react differently on bear they know if that bear wants to eat them or not .
Just because a dog will jump and grab a bear that is climbing out of a tree does not mean it is mentally tough , I have seen to many dogs that will do this and become 20 yard bay dogs when other bears decide to run them down and take dogs to task . Not to mention seeing the other dogs just watch as there comrade is down and being dispatched by the bear .

[cab]

There are many ways for a cowardly dog to get hurt on a bear hunt. Just coming into the truck with a bite mark, doesn't mean the dog is a bear dog. IMO most of the wonderd dogs, were in dog fights to begin with, and the bear had nothing to do with his getting hurt. Grit without brains isn't very desirable either. Speed without enought grit to hold the bears attention until the possey arrives, will result in many long races without a bay up or tree. Mental toughness alone is no good unless there is some other good traits to go along with it. A top notch bear dog will be the total package. He will have everything found in a top cooner, or cat dog, plus the stamina and mental toughness to handle the pressures of repeated close and personal encounters with the bad boys withou losing that burning desire to catch every bear he can find.

[Mike Leonard]

Some really good stuff on this thread.


chilocotin said somthing that is so true and so important to a pack of successful bear dogs. It is dang hard to come up with though but beleive me I have watched it so many times the right way and the wrong way.


If your dogs are not overly speedy on a bear chase just hope they are all average speed and hit the bear at the same time. Almost any pack of dogs can on a good track in reasonable country finally overtake a bear especially when he gets some tallow on him and the weather warms up. some of those little tough footed monkey bears spring skinny and cool weather can out run some dogs. But if they all get there about the same time usually you get a bear.


If you have some screaming fast pack members but the rest are slower look for some long races once they get wore down a little or the bear is dog wise and won't bluff up a tree. If thery are all screaming fast and swoop down on him at the same time usually he will go up. He may not stay up but he will go up if he can.

but if you got ole Rocket out there in front and he catches the bear and the rest of these clowns are strung out all over the dang mountain and none moving his way very fast old Rocket will sooner or later run into a big problem. And if old Rocket has the grit of Goliath about him he is going to run onto David the Bear one of these days and it is going to get very quiet quick like.


Chaser, remember old Lead? WOW! what a dog! I mean rig bears, and lions fast tough I mean one of the better ones.

Boom! Crunch! No more Lead the super dog just another dead dog.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Deffinately some good discussion here. Last night I put up a young bear, not much to talk about. rigged the bear, short race kind of textbook stuff. I carried on down the road and5 miles farther I come around a corner and there is a real hog of a boar moving my way feeding. I thought dump the hounds quick this will be as easy as it gets. Only one thing stopped me from doing that and that was the tangled jungle of layed over willows in knee deep water that the bear was feeding beside. I wouldn't worry about the bear catching my dogs except in a jungle like that. those dogs of mine would of had that bear caught easily before crossed the swamp, with no good trees in sight that would have resulted in a bay up in a terrible spot. Sometimes it is up to the handler to make the right decisions and prevent injury or death to their hounds. The other problem the handlers need to consider is the amount of dogs on a bear or lion, this I believe to be the first and most common reason for dogs getting malled. Those hairpulling front runnners have no way to escape when there are to many hounds behind him. The handler plays a large part in protecting his hounds and this should be considered everytime we dump the box.

[Smiley]

Chilcotin , I agree whole heatedly chearleaders will get the dogs into trouble that are putting the most pressure on a bear , and they do not even the ones that will not make contact but just bay tight or close.
Ity is my opinion that one of the most critical times in a race is within the first 3-5 minutes of when that bear is caught up with and that is often the difference in a tree ,solid bay up or a marathon .
But like Charles said in order to be a top dog in anything you have to have all the tools . Just because a dog will grab a bear or take a track when no other dogs can does not make it a bear dog or any other type of top dog.

[Hunter]

Some of those "stupid" gritty dogs get killed because they are in there tight with a not so gritty "smart" dog standing behind it in the way. When that "stupid" dog goes to move he runs over the "smart" dog and that's all it take for that bear to ball him up. Sometimes you can just have to many dogs on a bear gritty, smart or not. Saw this first hand as I'm sure alot of other guys have as well. Don't get me wrong.. I wouldn't cull a dog for getting nose to nose with a bear and never getting fur.

[Nolte]

You know I was thinking about this whole "cheerleaders get in the way theory" and I can't for the life of me remember a time when I actually saw a dog get pounded because it turned and ran into another dog. But usually our visability isn't much in the thick spots. Most times when I've seen them get clipped it's because they are either too slow, too dumb, or they run into stuff (not dogs) when they try to get away. I don't think I ever seen 2-3 rows deep of dogs on a bayed bear. Usually the ones that are being sallies are either following you or the entire entourage as it goes through the woods. The only time I guess I have seen them get it, is when the bear is backed into a brush pile or hole of some sort. In those cases there is really only enough room for one dog and any more creates a plugged escape route.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Nolte, as you said, tight spots are where the dogs get into trouble with to many. Depending on the vegetation and terrain should help determine how many hounds is a good amount. If your area is wide open sparsely treed then 20 hounds may be just fine. I prefer 2 or three, if they can't get it done its time for new dogs.

[Spokerider]

Good info on running bears here fellas

Wondering, do you have any tips or advice to pass on that you consider to be invaluable......on how NOT to get your hound mauled / killed on bear?

My bud and I are just starting to run bear with our 2 year old lightly started hounds. We have treed two bears without any trouble [ bears cooperating ], but, it's prolly just a matter of time before our potlickers get into some bear-trouble......

We're hunting a location where others generally do not, and therefore hope to find and run "virgin" bears, that are hopefully willing to easily tree.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

My number one suggestion to anyone running bears is have athletic dogs there is no substitute for agility. Those virgin bears can be tougher then you think as these BC bears have always had to compete with wolves.