Public comment Draft Oregon Cougar and Bear hunting agents

[Buddyw]

http://www.biggamehoundsmen.com/buddyw/Exhibit%20D%20Agent.pdf

comments due to the ODFW commission by OCT 12th.

Please understnad This is not sport hunting, I would almost contest that this is even called hunting? This is determining who is elligable to kill for the state and save them money....

I personally don't know where I stand on this?? I would much rather prefer to re-turn to allowing hunting with dogs. I don't believe the state (or it's agents) should be doing the hunting. But unless Oregon really starts to rally behind some effort to draft a Ballot measure this will never happen...

Anyways..
This is to adopt rules for using volunteer as agents of the state for Cougar and bear removal according to the Oregon Bear managment plan, and cougar managment plan.

Basically the only difference I see is that it will save 80% of ODFW money by not having to pay Wildlife services.-- Frankly I could care less about this part.

Let's hear your thoughts about it..

I haven't sent in my comments yet..

Department staff will be providing the Commission our proposed “Bear and Cougar Agent Rules” (Division 079) at the October 12, 2007, Commission meeting in Salem.

The public comment period on the staff’s proposed Division 079 rules will run through the October 12, 2007, Commission meeting where the staff will ask the Commission to act on the proposal.

Public testimony can be provided at the October Commission meeting or written comments can be provided anytime prior to the commission hearing and the morning of October 12.

[treeing walkers]

sounds pretty goofy to me. Why not just try and get the sport of hound hunting passed and all problems will be gone. Then they don't have to do all this stupid stuff. or at the least do like Washington and do public safety removal tags by a lottery system and then do it that way ?? And do a a cougar season like we also do in the worst counties. it does not solve the sport hunting problem but it gets our feet in the doors where they need to be and start showing how affective hound hunting is on these certain game animals.

[Melanie Hampton]

Fish and Game are too scared of pissing off the anti's... That is why it is not pushed by them to open it back up.. Part of me thinks "whoohoo we get to hunt" but then again I have gone out on cougar calls this year because nobody could get a hold of the "hired trapper" or whatever the hell he is..

Sorry but I hope it blows up in their face.. Fix it right or don't fix it at all.. Do you know what a mess it is going to be when they start hiring people.. Half the people around here are just into dogs and don't even have one that can give them a decent deer race let alone catch a cat..

Okay I am venting... Sorry..

Let me give you my recent run in with Fish and Game (just to show their mentality)

There is a local area here that Fish and Game manages.. A wildlife area. There is hunting allowed with bows (no rifles) but the guys can go out with shotguns and bird hunt with their dogs.. I call to clear it that I can go out and hunt on it with my dogs..

"Oh yeah you can hunt out there, no problem.. Oh with hounds.. No, hounds are not allowed out there. The other hunters complain about them so the director says no.. Besides there are no bobcat or otter to hunt out there.. Oh raccoons.. At night.. No it probably wouldn't be disturbing anyone, but no hounds allowed.. Sorry"

Really pissed me off... Who the hell hunts otter?? Drove by it yesterday and seen some guys out there with some really nice GSP's and shotguns...

FIsh and Game in our local area bites.. Sorry to those who work there, but stand up for what is right!!

[bluedogs]

if we had a million bucks i think that is what it costs we could get hutning with hounds back on the ballot, easer said then done its not like you can go out and do a car wash. fish and game are influenced my our super cool govenor old libral ted on how things are going to be handled fish and game tryed to tell him about this cougar plan but he said no hound season. hes a dick like that. i personally cant wait to see him leave office by then i hope it isnt to late to fix what he screwed up. ladycathunter is right there are alot of guys in oregon with dogs but not alot of guys here with dogs that can do somthing about it on a regular basis. and most the guys i now with good dogs arnt volunteering infact i dont know anyone who is. what needs to happen is oregon hunters need to raise the money to get hound hunting back on the ballot so voters and deside and doing this we need to promote hound hunting but first we got to get a million bucks to put it on the ballot.

[oregonhunter]

the ones that are going to want this plan is the ones that don't have the good dogs. there the ones that don't have the knoldge to realize that this plan is stupid. there the new guys that havn't got to see our side of the fence. Im new to the sport as far as having my own dogs but i spent a lot of time like four years going with an old hounds men. and I learned that it isn't about the money its about you and your dogs. if you really want to bring it back then you have to fight for it. that means not giving in and let them the fish and game and lobbist and govener take the blame for the problem and then maybe they will realize that the only management that makes since is with hound management. so I wont be offering my service to the people that took my privilages away. and as far as a vote we may never win that to many people in the portland area of the world the out number use in the vote. it wont change untill so kid or hicker gets ate then they will want them all dead!!!!!!!!

[Nora Cook]

I do not know any one that has jumped upped and said “ I’m going to put in my application” I do not think too many guys will. Just like Oregonhunter said. It will be the new comers that will go for the chance first.

As far as getting hound hunting back on the Ballet. I do not think that most people are looking at the big picture. (No, I’m not giving up on the fight I will ALWAYS fight to get our rights back) We have to be realistic about this. The Portland metro area (No the small towns of Oregon) grows by 3% every 6 months. Yes every 6 month. Oregon was voted the #1 earth friendly state. Portland was voted the 3rd largest town for environmental action. I wonder where Portland falls on the Animal rites activist involvement scale???? Oregon is going down hill very fast as far as any hunting goes. Hound hunters are not the only people that have management problems. All of our game management is poorly constructed. Deer hunters, Elk hunters it is all bad.

As most of you all know voting is an emotional act. The only chance we have to get people to vote to use dogs again (If we can get it back to vote) is that the week the ballets are due, a cougar kills a child in a back yard in the Portland metro area.

I spent some time reading over the applicant rules for the purposed plan last night and I am not worried about the plan. There is no way that ODF&W will be able to control the cougar and bear population with the current purposed plan.

We will see.

[Buddyw]

Sometime you just have to stand back and go.. Hmm. I really don't know anymore..

Like I said, This isn't about Hounds and hunting. I don't expect anyone to contest that we "should" have it fixed the correct way..

But what I don't see is a Road Map to get there.

This is just the Rules for How the "will" select hound guys.. Although a boycott sounds good in theory we can only wait to see enough people would make an impact..

My only constructive comments were that I expect them to select People that will uphold a sound and Clean Image of Hunters that hunt with dogs.

Wether we like it or not.. The TV, and New's and Anti groups are all crying that this a Return of Hunting cougars with dogs.. Fact is it is not and most Hound hunters don't approve this method.

-- But try to explain that to the media, We are going to get the Black eye Regardless.. They are and will make this look bad and I garantee they will willingly (and incorrectly) find a way to blame us for it.. There is allot of Heat on this issue, and there Will be allot of Publicity when they first start using it..

[Sportdog]

I feel that all of ODFW's decisions are financially motivated despite thier excuses. In Oregon deer and elk populations are on the decline, yet hundreds of cow tags are issued to kill pregnant cows. If they were really worried about wildlife in Oregon they would eliminate these tags, but instead they ignore them and try to find volunteers to kill cougars. Why do they ignore the excess killing of does and cows, because these tags bring in a large amount of revenue. It's the same with cougar hunting, if it was legalized it would eventually have to go to a draw system and the number of cougar tags would have to drop dramatically to keep everything in check.
If the wildlife in Oregon is to ever return to healthy numbers again ODFW will have to lay off some of their high payed employees and cut tag numbers. To put it simply I feel they all being extremely selfish and don't want to give up their cushy state jobs to save the wildlife.

[wwy]

Just to clarify everything for everyone out there reading this post since people continue to misrepresent the issues and place blame elsewhere. The ballot measure that outlawed hound hunting and bait hunting in oregon was a voter passed initiative. In Oregon, state employees (like ODFW) have no ability to even comment on such initiatives. A couple years ago SPORTSMEN and RANCHERS, and GRANDMOTHERS, and HOUNDSMEN screamed and yelled at the legislature to "do something about the exploding cougar population". Personally I don't feel that Oregon is still seeing an increase in cougars.
cougar problems maybe, but that is not a direct tie to numbers. The perceieved problem has also increased due to bantering like this post and articles in the paper. Everyone sees cougars. The Oegon cougar plan is a response to this gripe. It was mandated and driven by the state legislature, not ODFW, not the Govenor. Sit back and blame ODFW, there are culls in it just like every other organization, but that wont fix anything and that isn't the cause of the problem. The problem right now is environmental lobyist with huge amounts of money trying to outlaw every type of hunting. I don't know which state wildlife area you can't run hounds on but let me know which one, I'm curious I used to work for ODFW. THE OREGON COUGAR PLAN IN ALL ITS FLAWED WISDOM IS A RESULT OF OREGON RESIDENTS SCREAMING. IT IS NOT THE RESULT OF ODFW. GET OVER IT. Spewing incorrect information and making false accusations does nothing but make houndsmen look worse. The "fix" in Oregon is for voters to overturn the old ballot measure. I love good working dogs. I would dearly love to see hound hunting back in oregon. Useless bitching isn't going to make that happen. Take some respnsiblity and represent the facts and if you don't know the facts keep quite because you aren't helping the cause.

[Nora Cook]

That is hitting the nail on the head. Most people are very fast to jump to blaming this organization and that organization. Any person that has spent any time researching and fighting agents this knows that ODF&W can not just snap there fingers and give us our hound hunting rights back.

I do how ever disagree on the fact that the governor has nothing to do with it. I believe he plays a small but important part in it. If he backs a bill I almost guarantee it will go threw, that is how things work in the legislature.

The ONLY people that we, as hound hunters are fighting agents is the Environmental/Animal rights activist.

I do believe that ODF&W could offer better management decisions. ODF&W does have the choice on how to structure there game management.

[Buddyw]

WWY I agree with most everything you said.., except the part about the governor, Like Nora said.. I'm pretty sure that the governor has some helping with the plan to go through, not mandated it.. where you at the Commission Ruling?? Do you think they were listening to the comments??.

But the governor came to the sportsman show.. Just to see Casually walk by "ONE" boothe.. That boothe was the Oregon Cougar management plan.. We were lucky enough to see him walk in the door, gather at ODFW for 5 minutes and walk in a direct line to the Boothe slowly walk by the boothe and look it over, and leave the building... .. That's a Fact.. so let's not pretend that the Governor wasn't a part of this cougar plan.. He was a big part.

Also the Governor Veto'd the 10 county cougar bill Wish was passed by the house and Senate.

ONE man stopped that solution that would allow moderate Hunting and a way for ODFW to start managing cougars in 10 Counties.... Guess who that man was.. govenor Ted... So yea I'm going to hold the Him accountable... Yes I believe this is his plan.. We've heard ODFW tell us, and I've heard members of the commision pretty much tell us that the Governor had orders to see this cougar Plan through..

But of course you'll never find that in Writing.. So I guess it's not true.. .

You can hold the Governor Responsible... He has had his hand on the steering wheel for a while...

Everything else you say is spot on..

[Buddyw]

Besides that.. this proposal has nothing to do with that.. it just a rule making process on how ODFW will Select Volunteers to become Agents of the State...

Buddy

[Melanie Hampton]

wwy

Your right and I do know better... Just saw this on a wrong day when I was pissed at them.. I know that it was a ballot measure that passed to keep us from hunting and I know ODFW is not at fault for it... I do feel we need SOMEONE backing us on getting it back on the ballot.. Everyone says money will do it.. But all I know is I have donated and donated every time it has been asked and seen nothing come of it except this.. So I am allowed to be as pissed off as I want.. And on that particular day place partial blame on who I want...

And you sure as hell bet that I want this plan to blow up.. I still feel if it isn't going to be done with then don't do it at all.. People want to have control then lets put it back to how it was when there was control... I am sure the hell am allowed to feel that way..

And I still feel there is no damn way it is going to work.. Like everyone else has said the people who know what the hell they are doing with dogs aren't going to do it, leaving it to the newbies who won't be able to do it..

Oh the area is Denmen... not sure it that is spelled correctly.. I will check on my way home...

[orbowhunter1971]

WWY,

You took the words right out of mouth.

It actually makes me laugh when people blame ODFW. The were told to write a plan by the legislature, and to not even consider putting hound hunting in it. They were told that the people of Oregon spoke twice at the ballot box on this issue.

Hopefully, the people who voted in the ban will see the statistics on the ODFW website about the increased numbers of cougars being harvested since the ban in 1994.

Now every foot hunter with a sports pack has a tag and can shoot indiscriminetly at any cougar. ODFW knows that houndsmen targeted mature toms, too bad the public did not look at that fact.

Please take the time to read some stats and facts on the ODFW website before you blame a department that is at the mercy of the legislature and governor appointed wildife commision....

[Buddyw]

http://www.biggamehoundsmen.com/buddyw/commission_statement.pdf