Walker Breeding????

[nait hadya]

really now, how difficult can it be to tree a bobcat? first one i ever saw i walked the track and treed it myself

[dwalton]

Most of you boys out there that think your cat hunters could probably learn something, about cat including myself. A good pack of cat dogs that are hunted hard miss very few cats. When you have hunted with a good pack of straight cat dogs they make it look easy. I have seen very few combination dogs that make great cat dogs. A few, one or two in 44 years of hunting. I have seen no cat dogs raised on snow, lion, and bear that are top cat dogs to me. Bare ground cat hunting [ bobcat] is a totally different thing. Its like comparing apples and oranges. In the northwest top cat dogs will catch cats all summer long, not all you will lose a few in the summer but if you hunt all summer and are catching cats when winter gets here you will cat almost all of them. Cat packs with a combination of types of dogs that are hunted on straight cat on bare ground move a track different than lion dogs or bear dogs do, they can not compete. Dewey

[Huntintony]

Well said Dewey...

[Hipshooter]

Dewey
u got it right.
A cat dog is a cat dog & nothing else.

[twist]

Dewey, some of what you said I can believe but when you say you have seen no (cat dogs raised on snow)that may be true that YOU have seen none but that does not mean there is none. Yes a dog that has been raised and hunted in the snow of Montana may not be able to go to the west coast and look real shinny but that is the same as a dog from the west coast will not come out here and look like much of a cat dog either as that is not to say they are not both top cat dogs they have been TRAINED under different conditions. I think there are plenty of guys that Catch bobcat consistantly in the snow that would be willing to back my words. You are always welcome to come spend a couple days with me and my hounds and look at some cats. later Andy

[Hipshooter]

The modern day hunter has some advantages over the old time hunters.
Mostly faster ways to get around to the good hunting areas.
All the modern day electronics toys to help with the dogs.
The old timers thought they had to have the old time tree dogs to catch game.
Not so in this modern day hunting.
Most of the successful modern day hunters have some running blood in their dogs.
I have friends in Wisc. with half breed running dogs on bear & they out preform most of the straight tree dogs.
Mike Kemp is one example of this. I think most of his dogs have some trigg breeding.
There are some tree dog types that can run with the running dogs but not many.
The only game I would stay with the straight tree dogs is coons.
Just my opion

[blackpaws]

I have seen very few combination dogs that make great cat dogs.

we seem to catch enough bobcats to fill our tags with combination dogs. all the dogs we use to catch cats with here are top bear dogs too in my book. not just ours in my group but everyone around these parts hunt the same way. they use their good bear dogs for cats too. works for us.

[Budd Denny]

Dewey, some of what you said I can believe but when you say you have seen no (cat dogs raised on snow)that may be true that YOU have seen none but that does not mean there is none. Yes a dog that has been raised and hunted in the snow of Montana may not be able to go to the west coast and look real shinny but that is the same as a dog from the west coast will not come out here and look like much of a cat dog either as that is not to say they are not both top cat dogs they have been TRAINED under different conditions. I think there are plenty of guys that Catch bobcat consistantly in the snow that would be willing to back my words. You are always welcome to come spend a couple days with me and my hounds and look at some cats. later Andy

Well said and I totally agree. I for one would love to see the dry ground west coast dogs come here and try and catch a dry ground cat in these swamps. Not saying it can't be done but don't think they could do it consistently even 2 out of 10, maybe even 1 out of 10. Don't think my dogs could run on the west coast either.

[Nolte]

I have friends in Wisc. with half breed running dogs on bear & they out preform most of the straight tree dogs.

Out perform at what part. I've seen running dog blood in action on bear and while they can really run, the ones I saw lacked in other core areas. Most of these were full running dogs though, not mixed. I didn't see one that would really work a cold trail or tree. They might hang out at the tree, but you'd never know there was a treed critter with them in there. I've only seen one that was decent on a caught bear, but she is a mixed blood. The others wouldn't even stay on a caught coyote. The only thing they ever wanted to do was run, run, run and some of them really struggled to hang on to a track.

I've never seen a straight cat dog here in WI, because the dog would have a LOT of shelf time. We get a tag once every 8 years and then the season closes the end of Dec. You can train after that, but most guys don't. They just run yotes instead.

It would be a pretty short list of guys who hunt/catch cats consistenly in WI without snow. I'm sure guys do it and can do it, I just don't know of any.

[Sherry Bannert]

I HAVE BEEN RUNNING WALKERS FOR NEAR 50 YEARS AND RAN EVERY TYPE OF BIG CAT ON GODS EARTH AND THERE ARE NO BETTER BLOODLINE OF WALKERS THAN ORIGINAL FINLEY RIVER AND SACKETT, YES PAPERED DOGS ARE THE ONES TO BUY WITHOUT THE PROPER BREEDING AND BACKGROUND THE PUPS DONT HAVE A FAIR CHANCE AND THE BLOODLINE ITS SELF DOESNOT GET THE RESPECT THAT IT IS DUE.HALF BREEDS HAVE MADE SOME AWESOME DOGS BUT EVEN THE HALF BREEDS HAVE HAD HALF OR A TOP FOUNDATION BLOODLINE IN THEM,UNLESS YOU EVER OWNED A GOOD BLOODED DOG NOT A GOOD DOG YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

[Elroy Tate]

I think what Mr. Pittman and Mr. D. Walton is saying is if you just hunt your dogs on straight cat your caughting percentage will go way up. Your dogs only got cats of their mind. This will cause you to tree more jumped cats because thats all they look for and over time get good at their job of treen cats.

There are alot of bear dogs out there that fill all their owners cat tags every year. I still wouldnt classifily them as cat hounds. They are bear dogs that can tree some cat.

Mr. Walton I have to disagree with you on the snow. I believe there are cat dogs trained in the snow. I used to think the same thing that if I found a freash cat track in the snow it was as good as skinned. But after hunting the high desert country for awhile I changed my tune now. Cats have so many ways to put the slip to your dogs reguardless of the country you hunt in. Bottomline is if you are treeing cats consistant the dogs are doing something right!! Happy Hunting...

[Dads dogboy]

Gentlemen,

I hate to get caught up in the FRAY, but here goes.

David will chuckle at this but Cat Hunters from ANYWHERE should be careful about using Declarative or Sweeping Statements!

Others should remember that a Cat Hunter has to match his Hounds as to his Purpose and the Country that he hunts in. Very few Hounds can, or should be expected to Hunt in ALL geographical situations, it just would not be fair to the Hound!

Now for Mr.s Pittman, Walton, and Tate, Big N Blue beat you to it several weeks ago in another Post. He said that a Cat Pack that is trained together, & hunted together is like a well Oiled Machine and a thing of Beauty to Listen to and Watch in Action! It takes a darn good Cat to excape from one of these! This is why most True Houndsman refuse to Run their Hounds with somone elses.

We all our proud of our Hounds! Many of us have our lives dedicated to our Hounds. But as with our Children they are few that are as Perfect as we think!

Just Our Thoughts!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[DerekE]

The arguing is kind of futile. There are so many different types of country and factors that even comparing the same game (bobcats in this case) in different parts of the country is like comparing apples to oranges. What gets it done here may not get it done there. I can see this just here in TX alone. South TX, west TX, east TX, in the panhandle, and here in north central TX, the country is like night and day and it shows when you take a good dog from one area to another. That's just within one state. Not only that but the different lines within breeds are also like night and day. For example, a running dog that has been bred for generations with cat hunting in mind is a lot different than a coyote bred dog and I don't even want to look at a running dog bred for pen hunting. I do know that most running dogs had rather run running game. A lot of times they will practically break themselves off of coons once they start catching cats. They had just rather run a cat. They are bred to push a track, not straddle it. Diff. dogs, diff. game, diff. terrain, diff. weather, diff. hunting styles, diff. preferences. Makes for good discussion though. JMO
Derek

[DerekE]

And, you can have a good foundation without papers.

[rooster]

try not to be fixated on a breeding so much as producer. i havent seen a breeding that every pup is in my eyes a top dog every time. find someone that is suppose to have the best around and hunt with him. be patient and hunt with others and your opinion may change many times on what you think you like or want. you will know when someone has good dogs because the wont have to tell you or make excuses of what happend or why they didnt catch the varment, they just will. try to be patient in your search and remember being ruthless in your standards of dogs as well of culling dogs without letting your feelings get in the way is tough to do but i believe very necessary. good luck