Female Cats

Farmhand · Post by **Farmhand** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:29 pm

Sounds like the Pa. cat tag system. That isn't a perfect system, either. They are increasing the number of permits each year, but I have no idea what they base these numbers on. Some areas have a bunch of cats, like my area. Others have few or none. The concensus is for the most part that there are alot of cats out there--way more than PGC claims. So actually that is the same situation, only in reverse.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:23 pm

Well I'm not above all others to say that there have not been a few females dropped to my hounds but that was many years ago. Its been 10 years or more since then and I have come to realize the importance of keeping some of the breeding stock around especially after the population drop in 96' from the hard winter and all the over runs of the quotas since.

Remember this was Region 1 first year of a female sub quota. We have fought for many years to try and get it implimented over here only to have it shot down by FWP because the quotas filled to quickly to have such a sub quota work and yet we still have the best hunting and chasing in the state in my opinion.

With the new permit system our season for the permit holders runs till April 14th. Guys have the ability to be selective or not. One thing I have learned about houndsmen, you can preach ethics and morality all you want but you will never regulate it

I'm pretty happy with the permit system here especially the way it is layed out. I feel our cougars here have an excellent opportunity to get some size to them now that we have eliminated the over running of the quotas and the protection of the females. IMO

Boozer · Post by **Boozer** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:26 am

And I will tell ya that i have shot one female under my dogs which most have shot a female or two and wont admit it, but the one and only reason i shot that female was that i had two young pups that treed that cat by themselves and i wasn't going to leave them stranded after all that hard work. It's actually a funny story cause i cut this day old track early in the night, so i thought and i ran all my other roads and no dice, so i went back to that old track and figured i would run my pups and get them some exercise. Well ends up that the cat had made a kill and ended up stickin around not more then 1000 yards up this pass. Well my pups took the track really well so i turned them loose and they treed this cat no ,ore then 15 minutes later and i was so proud of them and it was there first cat they put in the tree by themselves i just couldn't let that cat go. Come to find out when i got my tooth evaluation back that the cat was dry and she was 9 years old, which made feel alot better about it. But ya there is times for that but i just can't stand the people that will shoot any cat they put in the tree. It to me isn't very got houndsmen ethic but scott i know that in my lifetime and probablly for ever there will be those people i just wouldn't want to be hunting with guys like that which i am sure you probablly don't either.

larry · Post by **larry** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:50 am

Yeah, I agree with both of you. Not sure how I feel about having to draw a kill tag, not to thrilled with the idea of it movin down here yet. If that 160-200lb tom happens to cross in front of me and I can't harvest him, then I might not be to happy with the draw tag setup. I do think that there are too many cats being shot that shouldn't be by guy's that are complaining about not having cats to run. Really like that the females got taken out this year though. Should help the population by keeping them around for one, and continuing to eliminate some mature toms that could keep some kittens from reaching adulthood.

Haven't seen too many guys that have a kill all atitude with the dog power to back it up, there are exceptions, but I am of the opinion that anybody with that much time in making a pack they are proud of and enjoy hunting, has the knowledge to spare some cats that alot of bloodthirsty guys don't.

whoflungdung · Post by **whoflungdung** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:54 pm

I like the draw system, but hate the fact that 1/3 of the tags in 121 went to people that had a tag last year. You should only be able to draw a tag every four years jmo.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:09 pm

When we put the permit system together we asked for a 3 year waiting period and we were turned down

We know about those that have drawn back to back and now FWP is considering it.

Boozer · Post by **Boozer** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:56 am

Ya i could see a waiting period in the future but right now i don't think it would go through cause the quotas and tags are still going up and they must just think there is to many cats to make people wait but that again comes from houndsmen that claim all these tracks they cut and these extra cats they treed that they really didn't just to make them selfves feel good but in all reality they are just hurting the system even more.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:46 am

Houndsmen like Terry Zink, Jim Barone and myself have asked FWP officials to head into the field and see first hand what is out there. I know Terry has been successful in getting one or two to go but I'm not gonna beg someone that does not want the truth.

I have asked the wolf biologist on several occasions to spend the day down in the Swan so I can show him how many wolves per lions there really are but I honestly think they do not want to know.

Last season when Tammy shot her Tom I went back in the next day because we lost a piece of equipment only to find wolf tracks all around the kill site and the area the lion layed the blood was dug up and there was fresh wolf scat everywhere.

Many people have this miscomseption that the Swan is overwhelmed with lions and I welcome them to check it out for themselves on a daily basis like I do. Many lions we see are nothing more then duplicate resident lions.

Lions are in a permit know different then moose sheep and goat and are the only animal in the state that have a trophy fee once harvested, they should be treated like the others and have a waiting period. Houndsmen should not be out there to put a hide on their wall every year, if they are there in it for all the wrong reasons, IMO

Boozer · Post by **Boozer** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:24 am

Ya I totally agree with ya and i will have to get together with ya some time and bullshit about it some more. I live up here in Kalispel and would really like to learn the area a little and hunt with someone that feels the same way i do about these kinds of things you should give me your number and i will give you a call...

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:17 pm

How long have you been in Kalispell? How many hounds and what are there ages do you have?
I already have a hunting partner but do travel west of kalispell time to time. You fellas are starting to get as bad as the swan when it comes to wolves

I use to hunt that hubbard area alot but now its infested with wolves.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:59 am

What I've learned over the years about guiding clients is don't turn loose on a female cat if you don't want your client to shoot it. Legally, they have an either sex tag and therefore have the right to harvest that cat if they want to. And if you've taken that hunter's money and don't produce a tom then you have no right to bitch about what he takes, cause he paid you for that opportunity.

Personally, I've never caught a female lion that I would shoot or waste my tag on. I have had clients take them, however, even when I begged them to hold out for more. Some of the clients I've hunted only have one or two trips to a tree in them--meaning if you waste that trip on a female lion you may never get them to a tom.

Honesty is always the best policy, and telling the hunter that's a female track instead of waiting until you're under the tree can often backfire on a guy. My dogs rigged a lion off a fresh kill a couple years back and the tracks clearly showed a female lion. My outiftter wanted to run the cat but the snow was deep up the country, it was afternoon, and Valentine's Day to boot. The hunter had came for a large tom lion, so I asked him do you want to kill a female now? We didn't run the cat..............

Often times people who come into our sport to kill a lion have no idea what they are getting into, often have more money than sense and don't want to walk away from a kill. My advice is don't dump on what you don't want them to kill.....

keep'em treed,
ike

Boozer · Post by **Boozer** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:19 am

Thats What i hear and not really excited about that but what can you do. I moved up here in april and havent got to do any hunting up here but i have some good dogs i have 2 males that are finished that are 3 1/2 and i have 1 female that is 4 that is finished and i also have 2 female pups that are 1 year old that are already treeing coons by themselves.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:31 am

Sounds like you have a great pack going, you should have no trouble putting up some longtails.
West of Kalispell has some good population but also a high number of hunters. Olney, Fortine and Trego have some excellent cougar hunting also but the wolf numbers are higher then west of town. The south Fork and Hungry Horse has some decent numbers. Go out Columbia Falls towards Blankenship road and you will find some Cougars and Blankenship cuts over to Hungry Horse.
HD 132 has a low number of cougars because FWP has kept the quotas high to keep the numbersw down close to town.

Boozer · Post by **Boozer** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:15 am

Ya i do and they are great dogs and i will have to roam around those areas once the snow hits the ground and see whats out there.

Boozer · Post by **Boozer** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:34 pm

Hey spanky what do you think of the hunting up by the yak have you ever hunted much up there i hear there is a lot of cats.