How Important

[Mr.pacojack]

How Important is a handle on biggame dogs? Is it more important for say lion, bear or bobcat or do you find it important at all?
I have had alot of dogs this year that I have got from different people and different breeds and out of all the different dogs and breeds all the dogs have one thing in common and that is they have no basic training and I was just wondering if I am the only one that thinks it is very important to have a handle?
All the Top dogs I have ever seen have had a great handle on them and are a pleasure to be around. But I am sure that just like horses that have just been bucked out with no ground work dogs can be the same way.

[Mike Leonard]

To my way of thinking it is VERY important. I am a stickler for a handle on a dog and I just can't abide hounds or hound handlers who don't or won't get a handle on their dogs.

I am like you the best hounds and hound guys I have been around handled and had a handle on their dogs. When I see guys wrestling around with their dogs and tackling them and carry them to and from the box and stuff like that you can bet I won't be turning loose around them. To me it's a lot like kids you can't get a hell of a lot done with kids that run in all directions and don't pay you know mind.


Sort of glad my kid raising days are over , hounds are easier. LOL!

[wyatte]

As for my own dogs, I won't have them if they don't handle and mind well, from coming when they are called to loading-up and not jerking you around when your leading them, I've seen a lot of dogs that have no manners and are a pain in the butt for the handler to deal with.

[twist]

In my opinion now a handle is very impotant as it make the hunt alot more enjoyable and a heck of alot less work but a dog doesnt have to have a handle to catch game consistant it just needs to be trash broke, pure fact. In my younger years I never focused on getting a real great handle on my hounds and sure cought the heck out of cats back then. Also different hunting conditions are a factor in this subject. later, Andy

[Huntintony]

I agree with you guys completely about having dogs that handle well. I have hunted with folks that dont have a handle on their dogs and it was just a huge waste of my time. Very frustrating waiting on someone chasing their dogs around the MTN.

I've got my dogs handling good around the house, during the hunt and loading and unloading. The problem i am having is after a kill or if I want to leave the animal in the tree for another day, my dogs just dont want to leave that animal. These are young dogs with a heck of a lot of hunt in them so I dont want to put the juice to them. But trying to carry a cat back to the truck, or horse is quite the task. Let me know what you guys do to get this type of problem worked out. I have noticed that little by little they are getting better but it is still a huge problem.

Thanks Everyone,,,

Tony

[Ike]

The problem i am having is after a kill or if I want to leave the animal in the tree for another day, my dogs just dont want to leave that animal. These are young dogs with a heck of a lot of hunt in them so I dont want to put the juice to them. But trying to carry a cat back to the truck, or horse is quite the task. Let me know what you guys do to get this type of problem worked out. I have noticed that little by little they are getting better but it is still a huge problem.

Thanks Everyone,,,

Tony

A few years back, I beefed up to nine hounds in my lion and bear pack and was pretty much always hunting alone. Matter fact, it became nearly impossible for me to pull that many dogs off the tree so I decided things were gonna change. I have a six collar tri-tronics shock collar system and figured dogs are smart enough to know when I want them to leave, period. So I just began calling them off. These dogs ranged from a yearling to an eight year old that had been dragged off a tree all it's life.

On the first tree I let them tree for an hour or so after I arrived, petted them all up and gave them a that a boy and then began to walk away calling those hounds. Most would turn and make a few steps them go back to treeing. Most of them got beeped and called again like they always do when I want them to change their behavior and we all walked out together. And it's been that way every since that day, never carry a leash unless I plan on killing, period!

A hunter and I rigged around today and found three sow size tracks and a couple of rigs that was hard to put a track on. We were hunting for a killing size boar and had NO plans of turning out on a small bear to just look at. On the last spring, we found a sow size track around 1:30 PM in a place I wouldn't run anything but a killer bear and then threw all six hounds down to get a drink and cool down. They started that bear track several times and I called them all back to that spring (with just my voice, and they were nearly gone), which contrary to popular belief doesn't hurt a damn thing. A good pack of hounds can understand what, when and where just like people can...........

I had a buddy with me on a treed bear last spring. We loaded our packs and began to walk out and I called those six hounds off the tree. This buddy had hunted lion hounds and guided for over twenty-five years and couldn't believe what he had just seen, then told me he'd like to film that so the dogs were told to get the bear and back to the tree they went. After he fired up his video camera I called all six of those hounds out again and they all left the tree together and came on the run. The switch can be turned on and off and back on again, and no bullcrap about it!

ike

[TomJr]

Handle should be number one for any dog hunting or not.

Huntintony
I have a command for dead critters to let my dogs know its time to stop and move on. I just say loudly "mine!" and they leave off. It didn't take much to train them but I start young when they are still pups and take away toys, food ect. Once you are catching real game its easy if you have laid the ground work early.

I would not be afraid of putting the juice to them while carring an animal back, but you should also just be able to stop them with your voice and if needed a firm hand. They need to know its your critter not thiers. Same with getting them to leave a tree with critter still in it... though it is tougher to get younger dogs not to sneak back without a shock collar or leash, just takes some patience and being willing to march back to the tree a few times till they get it. (I have not used shock collars yet but they are just another tool and can realy lenthen your reach. They should know that its you causing them to feel that shock so they respect you and how long your arm is.)

I don't think you can take the "hunt" out of a dog with corrections on a dead critter or calling them off a treed critter. They know what you want and if they respect you they will comply. So key is getting your dogs to respect you so they are hunting for you not themselves.

[three rivers catahoulas]

I got spoiled for the first few years I hunted dogs, I ran nothin but Catahoulas, and they were vary easy to get a good handle on(vary smart dogs). I have had many breeds of hounds and handle is my biggest pet peeve.

[Hunter]

I believe that in most cases hound hunters have a number of dogs that they are working with and in this day in age, time is at a permium so we spend as much time training to track, trail and tree as we can and handling is put to the way side. Alot of people just don't know how to teach basic obedience commands to a dog as well. Alot of people think that you can only train these commands with an e-collar. Thou they do help you can get basic come, heel, sit, and many other commands down with a check cord.

[Mike Leonard]

Lots of good advice here. The more time you spend with them and doing little drills the better they get. Dogs learn by repitition. So I work from that on a daily basis. I am hunting a number of younger dogs right now and only a couple old vetrans, so I have to continue to drill the younger dogs. I do the bulk of my hunting on horseback but we all know when horseback hunting there is plenty of walking to go with it. Dogs seem to me naturally handle better to a person on a horse or mule. Don't know excactly why but maybe they feel becasue of your mobility you are more a part of the pack. Anyway it works well for me, and as most who have hunted with me know I use a whistle much like a bird dog handler and I also teach my strike dogs to stop and take hand signals. Not to the extent of a highly trained labrador but they know when I stop them and give them a go on, or and over they will continue to cast in that direction or move in the direction I swing my hat. This has to be drilled a lot before you are on a track just moving thru the country hunting.

Good example early this morning we hit a female lion track about an hour after daylight. Well it had come just a sprinke of rain yesterday evening and then cleared off. The lion moved during the night probably a bit later because the track was good, and the dogs really built to it. Well she was covering some ground and they quickly got away from us. It was still cloudy and pretty cool. I figured the way they were moving the track they would jump and tree her before long. Well it just went on and on, and sorry to say but my dogs are a little soft not being pounded really hard lately. The regular season is not open and this was private ranch hunting. Well my son Chase was with me and I told him to stay after them I would trot back load my horse and move down the ridge line a few miles and see if they crossed over. He had a radio with him and he could touch base with me. Well, he called me and said they jumped and ran hard for about half a mile and then shut up and got quiet. I told him she probably treed and to just give them time. Well soon I heard old Nash give that dying quiver bawl and then he and his brother Toby started chopping. I said well treed so I told him go to the tree and wait. Well he did and he said slick it bailed and went out before I got here and went right across a well traveled ranch road. These two dogs are really hard tree dogs and they sucked the others in to them. Well it was obvious they had a bushy juniper that was slick. I told him just watch old Jiggs and when he circles he will pick it up and just go on with him and they will see the error of their folly and go on and trail it. Well as luck would have it they did get it going again and it was really rolling and here it came a really hard shower for about ten minutes and you know the rest. It was done when the sun came back out. Well he was way off down in this sage flat and I had to go way around with the truck and trailer. He didn't have but one lead with him and it had a double coupler on it. Well I started down this road and I met the rancher's forman. I stopped and asked him if he had seen the dogs. He said oh sure that boy on the bay horse has them all lined out right behind him pretty as you please and he is coming down the fence line.Well this would be no big deal to most but once those dogs knew there had been a lion and they couldn't trail it any more . they wanted to keep pounding on it.I knew that rain and then the sun wiped that track out pretty much so I said come on. He just turned his horse like he had seen me do and said. Ok Dogs! Let's go and they just fell in and came along. Doesn't sound like a big deal but it made me proud of him and the dogs.


It's that daily stuff even when you are not hunting that really helps when you get out there in the hills.

[bigboarstopper]

I wont own a dog that I couldnt or wouldnt let me get a handle on. My dogs mind pretty well for my standard. they always come when I call. I can let them run free on the beach and they dont bother people/kids or fight other dogs. Even if other dogs want to fight.

I can leave the back gate open and they will remain there until I give them the signal to come out and load into the box. They will always load on command in the field but my failure is unloading. I have never really been able to open the dog box and get a particular dog to come out while keeping other dogs in. Another failure of mine is when I call a particular dog to come to me usually some other dogs will come as well.

Another failure of mine is my older retired dogs. They tend to get special treatment and take complete advantage of it. They dont listen, load, come, obey, stay, unload, or leave me alone when I dont wanna pet them anymore. They are unfaithful and will go for walks with random people or load into their trucks. My oldest dog refuses to spend anytime what so ever in a kennel and prefers to walk 4 blocks down the road when im at work to eat my friends mothers cat food and sleep on her couch. She isnt worth the food I feed her and I wouldnt trade her for the best dog in town.

[Dan Edwards]

Handle is extremely important to me. I wont tolerate an ill mannered hound.

[Hunter]

Why don't some of you guys that have highly obedience trained dogs start another thread and give some of us a good read and some insight. Maybe sticky it.

[sheimer]

Just for the sake of arguement..........

Did teaching a dog to heel ever get them to follow a track (all the way to the tree)?

Did teaching a dog to sit ever make them tree better?

Did teaching a dog to come off the tree ever get them to stick with a mean bear?

Did a handle on a dog ever catch anything?

I want my hounds to handle like my Border Collie and am working to achieve it. I believe they can and should. I was just adding food for thought.

Scott

[twist]

In my opinion now a handle is very impotant as it make the hunt alot more enjoyable and a heck of alot less work but a dog doesnt have to have a handle to catch game consistant it just needs to be trash broke, pure fact. In my younger years I never focused on getting a real great handle on my hounds and sure cought the heck out of cats back then. Also different hunting conditions are a factor in this subject. later, Andy

Scott this is just the points I was wanting to get across. Yes a handle on dogs is a great thing to have and in my eyes a must to make the hunt alot more enjoyable but it doesnt make their hunting instincts any greater. later Andy